Ukraine's European Revolution?

[Admiral Yi]

I don't think the east is as solidly in the Yanukovich camp as it is portrayed.

There was an electoral map someone posted earlier that showed a pretty strong cleavage.

[DGuller]

I don't think the east is as solidly in the Yanukovich camp as it is portrayed.

There was an electoral map someone posted earlier that showed a pretty strong cleavage.

That is true, but election happened a while ago, and internal elections don't necessarily tell you about international allegiances.  The elections also happened before Yanukovich showed his hand.

[crazy canuck]

DG, what do you think of the NationalGeographic article I posted?

[Barrister]

DG, what do you think of the NationalGeographic article I posted?

Pretty superficial runthrough of Ukrainian history.

[Queequeg]

Holy Fuck. Oh my God. This is going to get so much worse.

[derspiess]

Have the East split away as East Ukraine and either become a Russian satellite or part of the Russian Federation-- that's what most people there seem to want, isn't it?

I think that's a mighty strong assumption.

I'll admit I have very limited knowledge on the subject-- just going by what I've gathered from the news & other sources over the past few years.  Do you know of any legit opinion polls or anything that disprove the notion that the southern and eastern parts of Ukraine (and roughly half the population) is pro-Russia?

[Maximus]

The governor of the Volyn region has reportedly been captured and "abused" by protesters.

[Capetan Mihali]

DG, what do you think of the NationalGeographic article I posted?

Pretty superficial runthrough of Ukrainian history.

It's like 8th grade social studies level.

[DGuller]

Holy Fuck. Oh my God. This is going to get so much worse.

Yeah.  It's pretty clear that Yanukovich went all-in for the military solution to the problem.  It seems like large-scale military defections are the only realistic hope for the protesters.

[Barrister]

Have the East split away as East Ukraine and either become a Russian satellite or part of the Russian Federation-- that's what most people there seem to want, isn't it?

I think that's a mighty strong assumption.

I'll admit I have very limited knowledge on the subject-- just going by what I've gathered from the news & other sources over the past few years.  Do you know of any legit opinion polls or anything that disprove the notion that the southern and eastern parts of Ukraine (and roughly half the population) is pro-Russia?

But what does "pro-russia" mean?

My understanding is that eastern Ukraine is largely russian speaking and views Russia positively.

Under Putin however, that's quite a bit different from wanting their region to be incorporated into the Russian Federation.

[DGuller]

I'll admit I have very limited knowledge on the subject-- just going by what I've gathered from the news & other sources over the past few years.  Do you know of any legit opinion polls or anything that disprove the notion that the southern and eastern parts of Ukraine (and roughly half the population) is pro-Russia?

You are falling into the Kremlin's trap and conflating multiple different concepts.  The eastern part is definitely more pro-Russia than the western part, but to make a leap of faith that they would favor the breakup of the country and being effectively absorbed into Russia is a stretch.

[crazy canuck]

DG, what do you think of the NationalGeographic article I posted?

Pretty superficial runthrough of Ukrainian history.

Well duh, its a National Geographic article.

But did they get anything wrong?

[Baron von Schtinkenbutt]

I don't think Putin it looking to physically extend Russia's borders.  They know how difficult that is to do since WWII.

With the exception of Israel, has that happened at all since WWII, disputed territories notwithstanding?

[derspiess]

Yeah.  It's pretty clear that Yanukovich went all-in for the military solution to the problem.  It seems like large-scale military defections are the only realistic hope for the protesters.

Has he gotten the military involved yet, or is he still using the Berkut-type guys for his "anti-terrorist operations"?

[Crazy_Ivan80]

one of the questions is wether or not the east-Ukrainian potentates would rather be big fish in the Ukrainian pond or small fish in the gigantic russian pond... powerwise