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Senate passes Nuke option

Started by 11B4V, November 21, 2013, 12:41:38 PM

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MadImmortalMan

Filibuster isn't the problem. The ability to filibuster without actually filibustering is the problem. The reason they didn't need to use cloture so damn often in the past is because back then you had to get the fuck up and keep talking in order to filibuster something.
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Admiral Yi

That's one way to do it, but then a filibuster is just a one day or so stalling tactic.

Filibuster as minority blocking works if the minority is willing to vote for cloture with the majority in all but exceptional cases.

Admiral Yi

Incidentally I heard on NPR that Reid kept the filibuster for legislation and for SC nominees.

Razgovory

Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 23, 2013, 04:10:24 PM
Incidentally I heard on NPR that Reid kept the filibuster for legislation and for SC nominees.

I'm cool for keeping it for SC nominees, that hasn't been a problem.  Legislation is a bit more iffy.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

derspiess

Quote from: grumbler on November 22, 2013, 08:27:49 PM
Not sure what argument you think you are making here, since you don't make any argument at all, but these conclusions certainly aren't mutually exclusive.  Why don't you make an argument, and use these quotes as evidence, rather than simply providing the quotes and expecting people to read your mind as to why you think they are significant?

Why don't you just fuck off, old man.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

Admiral Yi

One important aspect of this that I think is going largely unremarked is Reid's immediate objective.  Now I'm going on possibly faulty memory here from back when Reid first raised the possibility of going nukalar, but my understanding is that Reid wants first of all to expand the DC Court of Appeals, presumably so that he can fill it up Democratic nominees and create a Democratic majority.  The DC court is important because it has jurisdiction over all federal regulatory activity.

Not totally disimilar to FDR's attempt to pack the Supreme Court by expanding it.  That move created one of the strongest backlashes of his presidency and his Democratic Congress ended up voting it down.

Viking

Quote from: Jacob on November 22, 2013, 12:38:38 AM
It does seem that there was a huge surge in the use of filibusters, so it's not that surprising that the trigger got pulled in the end.

It's going to be fun some time in the future if this trend continues, with the Senate and Presidency are held by different parties. How will the executive function without being able to make any appointments?

Well, american parties are becoming more europeanized. Running a proper opposition by trying to stop anything and everything the government might do. As opposed to this silly bipartisanship ideal you people have over there.
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Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.

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garbon

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mongers

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grumbler

Quote from: derspiess on November 23, 2013, 05:14:35 PM
Quote from: grumbler on November 22, 2013, 08:27:49 PM
Not sure what argument you think you are making here, since you don't make any argument at all, but these conclusions certainly aren't mutually exclusive.  Why don't you make an argument, and use these quotes as evidence, rather than simply providing the quotes and expecting people to read your mind as to why you think they are significant?

Why don't you just fuck off, old man.

Sorry to tax you with actually making arguments, old woman, but hat's how debate works.  Bursting into tears and telling someone to "fuck off" doesn't get you any traction.  Arguments with evidence get you traction.

Why don't you dry your tears and try again?
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

grumbler

Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 23, 2013, 05:22:41 PM
One important aspect of this that I think is going largely unremarked is Reid's immediate objective.  Now I'm going on possibly faulty memory here from back when Reid first raised the possibility of going nukalar, but my understanding is that Reid wants first of all to expand the DC Court of Appeals, presumably so that he can fill it up Democratic nominees and create a Democratic majority.  The DC court is important because it has jurisdiction over all federal regulatory activity.

Not totally disimilar to FDR's attempt to pack the Supreme Court by expanding it.  That move created one of the strongest backlashes of his presidency and his Democratic Congress ended up voting it down.

Expanding the DC Court of Appeals isn't an immediate objective.  It would take House approval, which isn't going to be immediately available.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

Ideologue

Kinemalogue
Current reviews: The 'Burbs (9/10); Gremlins 2: The New Batch (9/10); John Wick: Chapter 2 (9/10); A Cure For Wellness (4/10)

derspiess

Quote from: grumbler on November 23, 2013, 06:50:14 PM
Quote from: derspiess on November 23, 2013, 05:14:35 PM
Quote from: grumbler on November 22, 2013, 08:27:49 PM
Not sure what argument you think you are making here, since you don't make any argument at all, but these conclusions certainly aren't mutually exclusive.  Why don't you make an argument, and use these quotes as evidence, rather than simply providing the quotes and expecting people to read your mind as to why you think they are significant?

Why don't you just fuck off, old man.

Sorry to tax you with actually making arguments, old woman, but hat's how debate works.  Bursting into tears and telling someone to "fuck off" doesn't get you any traction.  Arguments with evidence get you traction.

Why don't you dry your tears and try again?

Okay.

Fuck off.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall