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What is the answer to the Fermi Paradox?

Started by jimmy olsen, November 04, 2013, 08:33:38 PM

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What is the answer to the Fermi Paradox?

Evolution of Life is extremely rare
3 (10.3%)
Evolution of Intelligent Life is extremely rare
8 (27.6%)
Intelligent Life destroys itself soon after it becomes able to do so
6 (20.7%)
An Ancient space faring civilization destroys new advanced species
2 (6.9%)
Interstellar travel and communication are both impossible
6 (20.7%)
Other - Please Explain
4 (13.8%)

Total Members Voted: 28

Siege

Quote from: grumbler on November 05, 2013, 08:12:04 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on November 04, 2013, 11:05:41 PM
You're really flogging that singularity shit for all its worth, ain't you.

It is one of the few Wikipedia articles he thinks he can understand.

Logic is to Siege as bicycle is to fish.



"All men are created equal, then some become infantry."

"Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't."

"Laissez faire et laissez passer, le monde va de lui même!"


Razgovory

Quote from: Viking on November 05, 2013, 05:31:54 AM
To take these in turn

Evolution of Life is extremely rare - this is not the case, life is a consequence of biology. The three big steps towards making intelligent life on earch (cyanobacteria creating oxygen, whatever resulted in animals in the cambrian explosion and walking apes getting large brains which are capable of abstract thought) are not necessary consequences of biology.

I think he means life appearing in the first place.  That's not well understood.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Admiral Yi

I didn't see if the article mentioned the likelihood of planets having water in liquid form.  To this layman that seems a rare pre-condition for life.

Ideologue

Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 05, 2013, 05:03:33 PM
I didn't see if the article mentioned the likelihood of planets having water in liquid form.  To this layman that seems a rare pre-condition for life.

They did.
Kinemalogue
Current reviews: The 'Burbs (9/10); Gremlins 2: The New Batch (9/10); John Wick: Chapter 2 (9/10); A Cure For Wellness (4/10)

MadImmortalMan

Intelligent species are all either exterminated by the Kohr-Ah or imprisoned on their homeworlds by the Ur-Quan.
"Stability is destabilizing." --Hyman Minsky

"Complacency can be a self-denying prophecy."
"We have nothing to fear but lack of fear itself." --Larry Summers

jimmy olsen

Quote from: Viking on November 05, 2013, 05:31:54 AM

Evolution of Intelligent Life is extremely rare - this one is my pick. Animals on earth are as stupid as they can get away with being. If they could survive with a smaller and less complex brain evolution would result in those animals getting stupider.

That's true, but since the development of complex animal life 500 million years ago there seems to have been constant natural selection working in favor of more complex brains. The benefits of such are obvious (more complex senses, better ability to hunt, avoid predation, jockeying for position in social groups, etc) so why would this not be a factor on other worlds.
It is far better for the truth to tear my flesh to pieces, then for my soul to wander through darkness in eternal damnation.

Jet: So what kind of woman is she? What's Julia like?
Faye: Ordinary. The kind of beautiful, dangerous ordinary that you just can't leave alone.
Jet: I see.
Faye: Like an angel from the underworld. Or a devil from Paradise.
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1 Karma Chameleon point

Ideologue

The costs of such may be more subtle, but they're certainly there.  Sophisticated central nervous systems require serious energy.
Kinemalogue
Current reviews: The 'Burbs (9/10); Gremlins 2: The New Batch (9/10); John Wick: Chapter 2 (9/10); A Cure For Wellness (4/10)

jimmy olsen

Quote from: Ideologue on November 05, 2013, 05:49:41 PM
The costs of such may be more subtle, but they're certainly there.  Sophisticated central nervous systems require serious energy.
Actually, the fact that they cost so much energy, yet were still selected for indicates that the selective pressures favoring intelligence were strong indeed.
It is far better for the truth to tear my flesh to pieces, then for my soul to wander through darkness in eternal damnation.

Jet: So what kind of woman is she? What's Julia like?
Faye: Ordinary. The kind of beautiful, dangerous ordinary that you just can't leave alone.
Jet: I see.
Faye: Like an angel from the underworld. Or a devil from Paradise.
--------------------------------------------
1 Karma Chameleon point

Caliga

How about the possibility that alien civilizations exist and are passively or even actively communicating with us, but for whatever reason we lack the ability to understand them?  Perhaps they use some communications technology that is beyond our comprehension, or maybe they 'speak' so quickly (or slowly) that we cannot distinguish their signals from galactic background noise?
0 Ed Anger Disapproval Points

Darth Wagtaros

Or that the comm. Equipmentin the pyramids is broken.
PDH!

Caliga

0 Ed Anger Disapproval Points

Queequeg

Timmy I don't know if it's reasonable to think like that.  Pterosaurs had massively complex flocculi and theoretically hyper-sensitive wing membranes, birds still won.
Quote from: PDH on April 25, 2009, 05:58:55 PM
"Dysthymia?  Did they get some student from the University of Chicago with a hard-on for ancient Bactrian cities to name this?  I feel cheated."

jimmy olsen

Quote from: Queequeg on November 05, 2013, 11:25:39 PM
Timmy I don't know if it's reasonable to think like that.  Pterosaurs had massively complex flocculi and theoretically hyper-sensitive wing membranes, birds still won.
Birds didn't seem to have much to do with that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pterosaur#Extinction
It is far better for the truth to tear my flesh to pieces, then for my soul to wander through darkness in eternal damnation.

Jet: So what kind of woman is she? What's Julia like?
Faye: Ordinary. The kind of beautiful, dangerous ordinary that you just can't leave alone.
Jet: I see.
Faye: Like an angel from the underworld. Or a devil from Paradise.
--------------------------------------------
1 Karma Chameleon point

Josquius

1,2 and 3.
Though I will add the notes that it depends how you define extremely rare and that with 3 it may just be a case that it evolves into a situation where it can't escape its planet- for instance the planet is too young and hydrocarbon poor or they use it all up before they become spareborne.
I suppose 5 could come into play somewhat with my take on 3 but I wouldn't go as far as impossible.
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Queequeg

Quote from: jimmy olsen on November 06, 2013, 12:28:31 AM
Quote from: Queequeg on November 05, 2013, 11:25:39 PM
Timmy I don't know if it's reasonable to think like that.  Pterosaurs had massively complex flocculi and theoretically hyper-sensitive wing membranes, birds still won.
Birds didn't seem to have much to do with that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pterosaur#Extinction
Which species exists today, and which had the more complex brain?  Which, if the bigger brain always wins out, should be bumping in to windows today?
Quote from: PDH on April 25, 2009, 05:58:55 PM
"Dysthymia?  Did they get some student from the University of Chicago with a hard-on for ancient Bactrian cities to name this?  I feel cheated."