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CSI Venezuela

Started by Savonarola, October 22, 2013, 02:15:32 PM

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Razgovory

#375
February 06, 2019, 10:23:08 PM
You know, it might actually be worth 1.2 billion for Maduro and crew to slip out the backdoor.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

derspiess

#376
February 07, 2019, 03:46:27 PM
Would save some lives, for sure. 

My wife's Venezuelan friends keep telling me they'd give up half their oil or build ("and paint" :huh: ) Trump's wall if we get rid of Maduro.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

Admiral Yi

#377
February 07, 2019, 03:57:14 PM
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cupe-unions-venezuela-maduro-cupw-clc-1.5005798

QuoteOrganized labour in Canada is voicing its opposition to the federal government's decision to embrace Venezuelan opposition leader Juan Guaido over the regime of Nicolas Maduro — which has been accused of human rights abuses and of winning the last election through vote-rigging.

The Canadian Union of Public Employees (CUPE) — Canada's largest union — the Canadian Union of Postal Workers and the Canadian Labour Congress have expressed varying degrees of concern over Canada's move to recognize Guaido as interim president.
...

CUPE goes on in that statement to accuse the Trudeau government of choosing to side with a self-declared interim leader over President Nicolas Maduro, "who was duly elected by the people of Venezuela." It also accused Ottawa of siding with U.S. President Donald Trump and American foreign policy.

:huh:

Barrister

#378
February 07, 2019, 04:04:02 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 07, 2019, 03:57:14 PM
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cupe-unions-venezuela-maduro-cupw-clc-1.5005798

QuoteOrganized labour in Canada is voicing its opposition to the federal government's decision to embrace Venezuelan opposition leader Juan Guaido over the regime of Nicolas Maduro — which has been accused of human rights abuses and of winning the last election through vote-rigging.

The Canadian Union of Public Employees (CUPE) — Canada's largest union — the Canadian Union of Postal Workers and the Canadian Labour Congress have expressed varying degrees of concern over Canada's move to recognize Guaido as interim president.
...

CUPE goes on in that statement to accuse the Trudeau government of choosing to side with a self-declared interim leader over President Nicolas Maduro, "who was duly elected by the people of Venezuela." It also accused Ottawa of siding with U.S. President Donald Trump and American foreign policy.

:huh:

The Canadian left is not immune from having useful idiots.  The NDP is taking a similar point of view.  Besides it has more to do with the bit you didn't bold - that Canada is taking the same side as Trump, and certain leftists don't like it.
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

Habbaku

#379
February 07, 2019, 09:11:50 PM
There are plenty of morons in the USA that are equally stupid RE: Maduro and Guaido. Without knowing anything about the situation, they claim this is a "both sides are bad" situation or, worse, claim that Maduro is totally OK and it's really just the evil Yanqui that are making him do bad things.
The medievals were only too right in taking nolo episcopari as the best reason a man could give to others for making him a bishop. Give me a king whose chief interest in life is stamps, railways, or race-horses; and who has the power to sack his Vizier (or whatever you care to call him) if he does not like the cut of his trousers.

Government is an abstract noun meaning the art and process of governing and it should be an offence to write it with a capital G or so as to refer to people.
-J. R. R. Tolkien

Admiral Yi

#380
February 07, 2019, 09:32:43 PM
I know there are plenty of morons out there; what caught my mind was the duly elected part.  That's like calling him a skilled technocratic manager of the economy. Also that this is the largest union in Canada and not some wacko fringe outfit with 18 members.

Berkut

#381
February 08, 2019, 10:25:08 AM
Quote from: derspiess on February 07, 2019, 03:46:27 PM
Would save some lives, for sure. 

My wife's Venezuelan friends keep telling me they'd give up half their oil or build ("and paint" :huh: ) Trump's wall if we get rid of Maduro.

Fuck that. No US intervention in South America has EVER been seen by the world as positive in any way, not matter what. The long term result is that we end up owning whatever fucked up outcome there is, if there is a fucked up outcome, and if there is a positive outcome, it had nothing to do with our imperialist meddling.

Let the EU or something fix them.
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

select * from users where clue > 0
0 rows returned

Valmy

#382
February 08, 2019, 10:37:07 AM
I would be for doing something on a small scale. Like helping to evacuate Maduro to wherever disgraced South American politicians live in exile these days.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Valmy

#383
February 08, 2019, 10:39:02 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on February 07, 2019, 09:11:50 PM
There are plenty of morons in the USA that are equally stupid RE: Maduro and Guaido. Without knowing anything about the situation, they claim this is a "both sides are bad" situation or, worse, claim that Maduro is totally OK and it's really just the evil Yanqui that are making him do bad things.

The impression I got was that Guaido was just some guy who declared himself the leader of the opposition, knowing he actually is Constitutionally supposed to be President right now changes things. Maybe I am not alone in getting that message somehow?
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

derspiess

#384
February 08, 2019, 11:35:45 AM
Quote from: Berkut on February 08, 2019, 10:25:08 AM
Fuck that. No US intervention in South America has EVER been seen by the world as positive in any way, not matter what. The long term result is that we end up owning whatever fucked up outcome there is, if there is a fucked up outcome, and if there is a positive outcome, it had nothing to do with our imperialist meddling.

Let the EU or something fix them.

I'm not sold on intervention yet, either.  Just wanted to convey how desperate they are to get rid of Maduro.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

derspiess

#385
February 08, 2019, 11:36:39 AM
Quote from: Valmy on February 08, 2019, 10:37:07 AM
I would be for doing something on a small scale. Like helping to evacuate Maduro to wherever disgraced South American politicians live in exile these days.

Cuba would seem to be the most logical choice.  But they absolutely love him in Turkey, for some reason.  He'd be treated like royalty there.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

derspiess

#386
February 08, 2019, 11:42:28 AM
Quote from: Valmy on February 08, 2019, 10:39:02 AM
The impression I got was that Guaido was just some guy who declared himself the leader of the opposition, knowing he actually is Constitutionally supposed to be President right now changes things. Maybe I am not alone in getting that message somehow?

Since this caught a lot of people off-guard, one can be forgiven for not fully understanding things 2-3 weeks ago.  But now the information has been out there & available. 
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

Habbaku

#387
February 08, 2019, 12:05:48 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 08, 2019, 10:39:02 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on February 07, 2019, 09:11:50 PM
There are plenty of morons in the USA that are equally stupid RE: Maduro and Guaido. Without knowing anything about the situation, they claim this is a "both sides are bad" situation or, worse, claim that Maduro is totally OK and it's really just the evil Yanqui that are making him do bad things.

The impression I got was that Guaido was just some guy who declared himself the leader of the opposition, knowing he actually is Constitutionally supposed to be President right now changes things. Maybe I am not alone in getting that message somehow?

You are definitely not alone in not knowing much about Guaido, but you are much better than those because you aren't jumping to condemn Guaido without doing some research.

My issue is that we're so deep into the "hot takes" that you can have influential voices guide a lot of people's opinions on issues like Venezuela and essentially preempt any sort of research. Why look deeper into an issue if your political idols have already done the "work" to give you an opinion?
The medievals were only too right in taking nolo episcopari as the best reason a man could give to others for making him a bishop. Give me a king whose chief interest in life is stamps, railways, or race-horses; and who has the power to sack his Vizier (or whatever you care to call him) if he does not like the cut of his trousers.

Government is an abstract noun meaning the art and process of governing and it should be an offence to write it with a capital G or so as to refer to people.
-J. R. R. Tolkien

Habbaku

#388
February 08, 2019, 12:18:57 PM
Quote from: derspiess on February 08, 2019, 11:42:28 AM
Quote from: Valmy on February 08, 2019, 10:39:02 AM
The impression I got was that Guaido was just some guy who declared himself the leader of the opposition, knowing he actually is Constitutionally supposed to be President right now changes things. Maybe I am not alone in getting that message somehow?

Since this caught a lot of people off-guard, one can be forgiven for not fully understanding things 2-3 weeks ago.  But now the information has been out there & available.

Bingo. Being guarded about Guaido was the right call. It's not even necessarily the wrong call now. But what isn't the right call is proclaiming Guaido is some sort of American coup in the making, or saying that Maduro is the legitimate president.
The medievals were only too right in taking nolo episcopari as the best reason a man could give to others for making him a bishop. Give me a king whose chief interest in life is stamps, railways, or race-horses; and who has the power to sack his Vizier (or whatever you care to call him) if he does not like the cut of his trousers.

Government is an abstract noun meaning the art and process of governing and it should be an offence to write it with a capital G or so as to refer to people.
-J. R. R. Tolkien

derspiess

#389
February 11, 2019, 01:34:29 PM
Jill Stein is doubling down on Maduro.  She's calling Guaido's party "rightwing" (they're center-left and a member of the Socialist International) and spouting all sorts of other crap on Twitter.

#jillgonnajill
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall
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