Scientology on trial in France for fraud

[The Minsky Moment]

If they're going to ban Scientology they should ban Amway while they're at it.  Both operate on more or less the same model.

Explain.

[The Minsky Moment]

, there's been a long-running debate on whether or not to declare Amway a pyramid scheme.

It is a pyramid marketing scheme, but that is different from a Ponzi (financial pyramid) scheme.

As long as the operation is disclosed to participants, I don't see the problem.

[Martim Silva]

For that matter, I seem to remember banning a crap religion tends to have unforeseen consequences - wasn't a bunch of extremist outcast loonies who set off from England in the Mayflower to land at Plymouth Rock? Look where THAT led the world.

To abolition of slavery and gay marriage? 

No, the Salem Witch Trials and an excessive religious zeal that permeates large tracts of North American society, even despite the best efforts of the Founding Fathers to create a Nation based on the best precepts of Enlightenment.

[Valmy]

No, the Salem Witch Trials and an excessive religious zeal that permeates large tracts of North American society, even despite the best efforts of the Founding Fathers to create a Nation based on the best precepts of Enlightenment.

It must be great to live in a world where all stereotypes are facts.

[Norgy]

It must be great to live in a world where all stereotypes are facts.

The United States? 

[grumbler]

It must be great to live in a world where all stereotypes are facts.

The United States? 

  Zing!

[Valmy]

It must be great to live in a world where all stereotypes are facts.

The United States? 

Pfft Martim wishes.

[Admiral Yi]

Explain.

Amway runs expensive seminars that purport to teach participants the proper spirit and attitude required for blockbuster sales.

[The Minsky Moment]

Amway runs expensive seminars that purport to teach participants the proper spirit and attitude required for blockbuster sales.

But they actually do sell and market real products.  As opposed to Scientology which is just selling the right to learn how to become eligible to take even more expensive seminars.

[Admiral Yi]

But they actually do sell and market real products.  As opposed to Scientology which is just selling the right to learn how to become eligible to take even more expensive seminars.

Scientology is selling the right to learn how to succeed in life.

[Eddie Teach]

No, the Salem Witch Trials and an excessive religious zeal that permeates large tracts of North American society, even despite the best efforts of the Founding Fathers to create a Nation based on the best precepts of Enlightenment.

The founders(well most of them) construed "freedom of religion" to be less expansive than it is today in practice and had no problems with religious zeal in the populace.

That aside, the influence of the Pilgrims in particular will be most manifest in the region they settled: New England. The religious legacy of other parts of the country comes from people who likewise were firm believers but largely immigrated for economic reasons.

[Martinus]

I think scientology is a clever loophole in the rules accepted throughout the Western society.

On one hand, in a capitalistic society, we have developed certain rules against fraud, which hold purveyors of various goods to a certain standard, being obliged to show that the goods they are selling actually have qualities they are advertised to have, etc. On the other hand, for historical reasons, we have tolerated religions the claims of which do not meet such standards, on the account that they operate on a largely non-profit basis.

Scientology tries to generate profit like any other corporation, but at the same time, it holds itself above the rules of the free market, when it comes to delivering the goods. I don't think this should be allowed, to be honest.

[Admiral Yi]

What advertised claims did you have in mind?

[Martinus]

What advertised claims did you have in mind?

"The right to learn how to succeed in life" to quote your own words.

[CountDeMoney]

No, the Salem Witch Trials and an excessive religious zeal that permeates large tracts of North American society, even despite the best efforts of the Founding Fathers to create a Nation based on the best precepts of Enlightenment.

It must be great to live in a world where all stereotypes are facts.

Says the guy that blames unions for everything since the 1918 Pandemic.