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Modern "Heavy" Infantry...

Started by Berkut, October 10, 2013, 08:51:43 PM

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Siege

Quote from: 11B4V on October 10, 2013, 09:09:10 PM
Quote from: Berkut on October 10, 2013, 08:55:29 PM
I am, of course, VERY interested in the views of our actual US military members on this.

30+ kilos? That is a fucking lot to carry around for any distance.


In LRS units, where I spent a good bulk of my time, 80lbs was the lightest ruck. Heaviest was the RTO with HF Data burst or Tac sat at around 100lbs. That's not even counting in your Load Carrying Equipment or whatever they call it nowadays, and body armor.  That is just ruck weight. It is also why we PT'd our asses off. You are not going to carry that weight on a 30 Km infil.

Of course we didnt fight under that. You cant and the rucks get dumped.

Siege would be able to get a good feel for what line straight leg infantry.

That's more than we normally carry.  When I weighted myself mission ready I was usually 100 lbs over my body weight. That would make my ruck about 55 lbs. Of course, we quick-release the rucks before engaging. For short patrols, within the 8 km of our combat outpost mortar support fire, we just take assault packs instead of rucks, with about half the weight, mostly juice and dope (water and ammo). For stay-over missions we had to take the damn rucks.


"All men are created equal, then some become infantry."

"Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't."

"Laissez faire et laissez passer, le monde va de lui même!"


Berkut

Back in the 90s when I was in the NG infantry, we were mech, so we never really carried much of anything. Just weapon, ammo, water, some food. No body armor, and we had the LBEs.

We would be useless trying to carry around all the shit you guys hump today.
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

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Ideologue

Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 11, 2013, 12:31:46 AM
Don't worry, DARPA's working on fixing this problem. ;)

http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/iron-man-suit-being-developed-us-army-8C11375650

QuoteTactical Assault Light Operator Suit, or TALOS,

OK, that's a good name.

But will it permit a single infantryman to kill upwards of 1.5 million people at a time?  No?  Does he provide both first and second strike capabilities?  Why are we funding this research?
Kinemalogue
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The Brain

The Captain Jewmerica program will let a single soldier kill around 2-3 million at a time.
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

Malthus

Regularly carrying 100 pounds or more over body weight strikes me as something only possible with a small, all-volunteer army of specially selected men. 
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane—Marcus Aurelius

Siege

From the article:
Quote
There is more of a tradition of marksmanship in Afghanistan, despite (or probably because of) the frequently longer distances involved.
I don't know where they got this from.
I did not see any Afghan advantage in marksmanship over the Iraqis. They both missed consistently.
Said that, afghans were definitively better organized and led. They fight as a unit.

But then, I got late to Afghanistan. Maybe all these mythical marksmen were already dead when I got there.



"All men are created equal, then some become infantry."

"Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't."

"Laissez faire et laissez passer, le monde va de lui même!"


mongers

I don't know how those/you guys manage that, the most I ever did was 20 kg up to about 30 miles a day; the weight of your bergens is mind-boggling.  :huh:
"We have it in our power to begin the world over again"

11B4V

Quote from: Siege on October 11, 2013, 02:14:07 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on October 10, 2013, 09:09:10 PM
Quote from: Berkut on October 10, 2013, 08:55:29 PM
I am, of course, VERY interested in the views of our actual US military members on this.

30+ kilos? That is a fucking lot to carry around for any distance.


In LRS units, where I spent a good bulk of my time, 80lbs was the lightest ruck. Heaviest was the RTO with HF Data burst or Tac sat at around 100lbs. That's not even counting in your Load Carrying Equipment or whatever they call it nowadays, and body armor.  That is just ruck weight. It is also why we PT'd our asses off. You are not going to carry that weight on a 30 Km infil.

Of course we didnt fight under that. You cant and the rucks get dumped.

Siege would be able to get a good feel for what line straight leg infantry.

That's more than we normally carry.  When I weighted myself mission ready I was usually 100 lbs over my body weight. That would make my ruck about 55 lbs. Of course, we quick-release the rucks before engaging. For short patrols, within the 8 km of our combat outpost mortar support fire, we just take assault packs instead of rucks, with about half the weight, mostly juice and dope (water and ammo). For stay-over missions we had to take the damn rucks.

Well said.

I think the misconception, to the lay person, is that we fight with a 50-60lbs ruck on our backs, which just isnt true.
"there's a long tradition of insulting people we disagree with here, and I'll be damned if I listen to your entreaties otherwise."-OVB

"Obviously not a Berkut-commanded armored column.  They're not all brewing."- CdM

"We've reached one of our phase lines after the firefight and it smells bad—meaning it's a little bit suspicious... Could be an amb—".

Siege

QuoteThe superior body armor has made life much harder for enemy marksmen, as chest shots are now frequently useless and fatal head shots are very difficult.
Our body armor stops 7.62x39, but 7.62x54, the round fired by the PK machine guns and SVD sniper rifles go right through.
And the Taliban got shitloads of PKs. I've never encountered a Taliban or Haqqani section without at least one PK.
They suck at shooting, but if they get lucky and shoot you in your chest with a 7.62x54, you are done.

And yes, we call them sections not only because they are usually larger than squad size elements, but because of the diverse weapon systems they normally carry and how they are divided in teams (long range rocket team, RPG team, machinegun team, suicide vest bomber team, etc)



"All men are created equal, then some become infantry."

"Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't."

"Laissez faire et laissez passer, le monde va de lui même!"


Siege

Quotecomputerize many military activities and video games evolved into highly realistic training simulators. The automation eliminated a lot of drudge work, while the simulators got troops up to speed before they hit the combat zone.
I'm afraid simulations remains a very tiny little small part of our training.
Simulations are getting better, but they still got ways to go.
In the infantry, we prefer a LFX, live fire exercise, with fire and maneuver, pop-up targets, smoke and pyro explosions, and pneumatic guns simulating enemy fire. You get the sweat, the smell, and a little bit of the danger and chaos. After all, even though the "enemy" is not shooting real bullets at us, we are shooting real bullets at the pop-up targets, while running and maneuvering, and if someone moves into somebody elses sector of fire, shit can go very wrong.



"All men are created equal, then some become infantry."

"Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't."

"Laissez faire et laissez passer, le monde va de lui même!"


Siege

#40
QuoteUAVs, especially the hand held ones every infantry company has, now give the ground commander his own recon aircraft. He controls it and it works only for him.

Yeah, but friggin battalion HQ can still link up to our UAV feed and see what we are doing.
I had the Battalion's Command Sergeant Major, 20 miles away at the main FOB (Forward Operations Base), calling my Company First Sergeant at our COP (combat outpost), bitching that my soldiers were out of uniform in patrols because we were rolling our sleeves up to the elbows.


"All men are created equal, then some become infantry."

"Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't."

"Laissez faire et laissez passer, le monde va de lui même!"


Siege

QuoteLiving conditions enabled troops in combat to be more alert and effective. Some civilians think air-conditioned sleeping quarters for combat troops, and lots of other goodies in base camps, is indulgent. It is anything but. Getting a good night's sleep can be a life-saver for combat soldiers and AC makes that possible. Showers, Internet links to home, and good chow do wonders for morale, especially for guys getting shot at every day. Good morale means a more alert, and capable, soldier. The combat units often go weeks, or months, without these amenities, but the knowledge that these goodies are there, and eventually to be enjoyed, takes some of the sting out of all the combat stress. The rate of combat fatigue in Iraq has been much lower than in Vietnam or any previous war.
This is right on the money. Couldn't agree more.


"All men are created equal, then some become infantry."

"Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't."

"Laissez faire et laissez passer, le monde va de lui même!"


lustindarkness

Quote from: Siege on October 11, 2013, 03:50:37 PM
QuoteUAVs, especially the hand held ones every infantry company has, now give the ground commander his own recon aircraft. He controls it and it works only for him.

Yeah, but friggin battalion HQ can still link up to our UAV feed and see what we are doing.
I had the Battalion's Command Sergeant Major, 20 miles away at the main FOB (Forward Operations Base), calling my Company First Sergeant at our COP (combat outpost), bitching that my soldiers were out of uniform in patrols because we were rolling our sleeves up to the elbows.

LOL
Grand Duke of Lurkdom

Berkut

Quote from: Siege on October 11, 2013, 03:50:37 PM
QuoteUAVs, especially the hand held ones every infantry company has, now give the ground commander his own recon aircraft. He controls it and it works only for him.

Yeah, but friggin battalion HQ can still link up to our UAV feed and see what we are doing.
I had the Battalion's Command Sergeant Major, 20 miles away at the main FOB (Forward Operations Base), calling my Company First Sergeant at our COP (combat outpost), bitching that my soldiers were out of uniform in patrols because we were rolling our sleeves up to the elbows.

It's difficult to win the Hearts and Minds(tm) if you look like a slob.
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

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Razgovory

It's always a good idea to keep a close eye on him when patrols near a well.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017