Police Body-Mounted Cameras: With Right Policies in Place, a Win For All

[Neil]

Body Mounted Video.  And it turns out that most people who accuse the police of brutality are criminal scumbags who are evil.

[MadImmortalMan]

I wonder if it will affect police recruiting. Would you want to have yourself recorded on BMV all day, knowing that it's there for lawyers to nitpick over your actions? I wouldn't.

[Viking]

The reason the worst recorded day is often the one they get judged on is simply that it is the only recorded day.

I disagree.  I think it's because recordings of cops doing things right are mundane and not at all interesting, so they are never even watched by anyone.

I disagree. Having worked for a company that monitored all my driving I can see how the record of acceleration, deceleration and speed were used to demonstrate to the advantage of a driver which got involved in an accident that he was a safe driver. This record saved his job, since unsafe driving was a firing offense. If a police officer is accused of anything he will be able to bring up his history in similar cases and the relevant one not only what he did in this case, but that he has shown good judgement over a long period. Furthermore he can't be accused of having an undocumented history of deviant behaviour since all the behaviour is documented.

This, like the car mounted cameras will primarily be used to protect police as well as keep them honest. Personally I'd like to see speed monitors connected to gps installed in all vehicles that automatically report speeding to the authorities. It would make for much safer and smoother traffic in addition to more nuanced speed limits, possibly changing based on weather and traffic conditions. 

[Barrister]

Another problem that I see is that cops often get judged by their worst recorded day.  If you have a total surveillance of them, then pretty much every cop bar some superhuman saint is going to be a bad cop.  There has to be some pragmatic, but at the same time, transparent allowance made for minor mistakes.

This is selection bias. They get judged on not being perfect during the most controversial event. Constant surveillance can demonstrate that the officer in question has a long term history of competent by the books policing and will serve as an excellent character witness for the joker's "one bad day".

The reason the worst recorded day is often the one they get judged on is simply that it is the only recorded day.

Disagree.  Police are held to a standard of, while not perfection, they are expected to always comply with the law.

It is no defence to a complaint of criminal excessive force, to say "well I have an otherwise exemplary record".

[Viking]

Another problem that I see is that cops often get judged by their worst recorded day.  If you have a total surveillance of them, then pretty much every cop bar some superhuman saint is going to be a bad cop.  There has to be some pragmatic, but at the same time, transparent allowance made for minor mistakes.

This is selection bias. They get judged on not being perfect during the most controversial event. Constant surveillance can demonstrate that the officer in question has a long term history of competent by the books policing and will serve as an excellent character witness for the joker's "one bad day".

The reason the worst recorded day is often the one they get judged on is simply that it is the only recorded day.

Disagree.  Police are held to a standard of, while not perfection, they are expected to always comply with the law.

It is no defence to a complaint of criminal excessive force, to say "well I have an otherwise exemplary record".

I expect my police to comply with the law too.

In response to that complaint of criminal excessive force I want my police to comply with the law here. The BMV will protect the officer complying with the law and a long documented history of complying with the law will help the officer in cases where the evidence is not clear. The BMV will protect the officer from a false complaint of criminal excessive force, that is what I want. I also want the police to know that all actions are being monitored so they never get sloppy because nobody will know.

[Barrister]

Another problem that I see is that cops often get judged by their worst recorded day.  If you have a total surveillance of them, then pretty much every cop bar some superhuman saint is going to be a bad cop.  There has to be some pragmatic, but at the same time, transparent allowance made for minor mistakes.

This is selection bias. They get judged on not being perfect during the most controversial event. Constant surveillance can demonstrate that the officer in question has a long term history of competent by the books policing and will serve as an excellent character witness for the joker's "one bad day".

The reason the worst recorded day is often the one they get judged on is simply that it is the only recorded day.

Disagree.  Police are held to a standard of, while not perfection, they are expected to always comply with the law.

It is no defence to a complaint of criminal excessive force, to say "well I have an otherwise exemplary record".

I expect my police to comply with the law too.

In response to that complaint of criminal excessive force I want my police to comply with the law here. The BMV will protect the officer complying with the law and a long documented history of complying with the law will help the officer in cases where the evidence is not clear. The BMV will protect the officer from a false complaint of criminal excessive force, that is what I want. I also want the police to know that all actions are being monitored so they never get sloppy because nobody will know.

Viking, I think you are taking your experience of the bad truck accident, and taking it to an area where it would not apply.

If a cop beats a mouth drunk, it matters not that he saved 12 widows and orphans from certain death the week before.  Evidence of prior good character is essentially irrelevant in a criminal trial.

If it comes to administrative sanction, then sure, good character matters.  But not for criminal actions.

[Neil]

It is impossible to always comply with the law.  The law is the enemy of justice.

[Barrister]

It is impossible to always comply with the law.  The law is the enemy of justice.

[MadImmortalMan]

Neil has a point. Eventually, every cop will be able to be caught doing something or other he shouldn't do. Everybody breaks the law at some point, sometimes by accident or ignorance but they still do.

[Neil]

Whatever.  Your attitude is one that fosters crime and injustice.

[Barrister]

Neil has a point. Eventually, every cop will be able to be caught doing something or other he shouldn't do. Everybody breaks the law at some point, sometimes by accident or ignorance but they still do.

No.  If one breaks the law by accident or ignorance, it is by definition not a crime.*

That's why I kept emphasizing "criminal actions".




*Except for 'ignorance of the law'.

[CountDeMoney]

no prob with this 

I've no problem with the concept either, but some of the article's points and possibilities get a bit silly, though. 

Historically, there was no documentary evidence of most encounters between police officers and the public,

Really?  Then I filled out all those hundreds of FI cards and turned them in at the end of the shift for nothing.  Go fig.

[Neil]

I'm sure it will result in criminals walking free and large lawsuits against those who would defend civilization.

[Viking]

Viking, I think you are taking your experience of the bad truck accident, and taking it to an area where it would not apply.

If a cop beats a mouth drunk, it matters not that he saved 12 widows and orphans from certain death the week before.  Evidence of prior good character is essentially irrelevant in a criminal trial.

If it comes to administrative sanction, then sure, good character matters.  But not for criminal actions.

I think we may  be talking past each other. The cop that breaks the law should be punished, harder even than citizens. I'm saying this is a tool to protect cops who do follow and apply the law from slander and false statements.

[DontSayBanana]

These cameras would defend civil rights only if there is a way to ensure that such recordings will always be available.  If these recordings only surface when they support police officer's story, and disappear when they don't, then the advantage of having them is dubious.

For once, Tim beat you to the punch with the thread title: "With Right Polices".