Meanwhile in the Eurozone

[Zanza]

Employment in General Government as a Percentage of the Labour Force (2000 and 2008)


Can't find a picture for the compensation.

[Admiral Yi]

Given that general government excludes SOEs, I wonder what explains the huge differences.

Does Norway, for example, have one teacher for every two students and one cop for every two houses?

[Iormlund]

So not bloated at all.  In fact horribly understaffed.  And phenomenally overpaid.

I would imagine that having a public sector job in Greece, as in Spain, is a significant perk and thus often handed to people close to the establishment.

That's not always the case here*, but we do have a whole class of public sector jobs dedicated to feeding parasites with tax money.


* The rule here is the closer to local level you are the murkier things get. So a ministerial clerk exam will probably be quite fair, while one to select a clerk at the local urban planning department might not.

[Sheilbh]

So not bloated at all.  In fact horribly understaffed.  And phenomenally overpaid.

Look at the 'Composition of Employment' section in that first OECD link. I think the age composition of the Greek public sector may explain a lot.

The reported composition of employment shows a workforce with a high representation of women and older employees. The percentage of female employees in central government, 58.7% in 2009, is substantially higher than the average of 49.5% among reporting OECD countries. In addition, Greece has a markedly older age composition, with only 4.1% of employees under the age of 30, compared to the OECD average of 11.7%. Furthermore, the percentage of staff in the public sector aged 50 years or older has risen dramatically since 2000, and now significantly exceeds that of the total labour force where it has remained stable. For further discussion of public sector employment statistics in Greece see OECD (2011) Public Governance Review – Greece.

In addition I think the Greeks spend far less on education than is the norm in the OECD. As I say I suspect a lot of Greek public sector spending isn't efficient or really about delivering public services.

Given that general government excludes SOEs, I wonder what explains the huge differences.

Does Norway, for example, have one teacher for every two students and one cop for every two houses?

I'm not sure either. Maybe decentralisation? But even then apparently Greece is very centralised which means they're even more understaffed.

[Admiral Yi]

Look at the 'Composition of Employment' section in that first OECD link. I think the age composition of the Greek public sector may explain a lot.

You think that explains why Greek public employees are making 2-3 times national average wages?

I'm not sure either. Maybe decentralisation? But even then apparently Greece is very centralised which means they're even more understaffed.

My understanding is general government includes all levels of government.

[Sheilbh]

You think that explains why Greek public employees are making 2-3 times national average wages?

I think it's part of it. According to another OECD bit (admittedly based on Greek statistics) apparently over 50% of Greek civil servants have over 20 years experience:

Today, Greece has a fairly old and rapidly ageing workforce in its central government by OECD standards. In 2009, 38% of central government civil servants were aged 50 years or older, compared to 23% in 2000.3  Almost 60% had been working for the government for more than 20 years.

I don't think the Greeks are great on performance related pay and I think they have a dual labour system too. Imagine the number of pay rises accrued in a civil service that has 60% of the staff employed for over 20 years.

Also imagine the administrative problems this will cause (partially exacerbated by hiring freezes) in a few years time.

[Iormlund]

You think that explains why Greek public employees are making 2-3 times national average wages?

With such an older workforce seniority boni will be very significant, while pretty much non-existent in the private sector.

[Josquius]

This is kind of scary from Greece:

Well that's dumb. Why would they do that when GD are on the ropes as they are.