Obamacare and you

[alfred russel]

C'mon, you've been in those conversations;  nobody in the room wants to tell the guy in the big chair at the end of the table that what he's asking for can't be done on time, in the way he wants it done, or at the price he wants it.

The guy in the Big Chair doesn't want anything to threaten the checks rolling in when no one suspects the project is failing and, if people keep their mouths shut, won't figure that out for some time.

[Berkut]

Define "they"

The people responsible for getting this going.

I understand your implicit point.  I don't know when exactly the politicos green lit the project and starting the bidding and the work.  However, that begs the question of how a contractor should respond when given an unrealistic work proposal. 

"We need a website capable of processing insurance requests for ONE BILLION people, and you have 2 months to do it.  What's your bid?" 

If you accept the job you're telling the politicos the work can be performed in the time allotted and with the budget specified.

Of course - and the people "accepting the job" know full well that it can't be done.

[CountDeMoney]

C'mon, you've been in those conversations;  nobody in the room wants to tell the guy in the big chair at the end of the table that what he's asking for can't be done on time, in the way he wants it done, or at the price he wants it.

The guy in the Big Chair doesn't want anything to threaten the checks rolling in when no one suspects the project is failing and, if people keep their mouths shut, won't figure that out for some time.

I think we're talking about two different guys in two different chairs.

[Berkut]

However, that begs the question of how a contractor should respond when given an unrealistic work proposal.

That depends  - do you mean how should they respond in a perfect, honest world?

Or how should they respond in the actual world we live in where they want to actually get jobs?

[Eddie Teach]

I think we're talking about two different guys in two different chairs.

Those readings sound pretty consistent...

[CountDeMoney]

I think we're talking about two different guys in two different chairs.

Those readings sound pretty consistent...

I dunno...there's a difference between being the client boss, and the contractor boss.  One is cutting the checks, the other is collecting them.

[Admiral Yi]

That depends  - do you mean how should they respond in a perfect, honest world?

Or how should they respond in the actual world we live in where they want to actually get jobs?

Assuming there are reputational and/or financial penalties for failure to fulfill a contract, I would think the two worlds should produce similar results.

[Berkut]

That depends  - do you mean how should they respond in a perfect, honest world?

Or how should they respond in the actual world we live in where they want to actually get jobs?

Assuming there are reputational and/or financial penalties for failure to fulfill a contract, I would think the two worlds should produce similar results.

It isn't a matter of "fulfilling a contract". Everyone always fulfills the contract eventually.

The question is what happens when stuff is not done on time, who pays?

The reality is that if you don't tell the customer that they can, in theory, get what they are asking for, they will simply ask another vendor who will tell that.

And of course, the reality is also that what they are asking for NOW is not in any way, shape or form going to be what they really want, or what they are going to be asking for before it is all said and done anyway.

It's not like someone went to vendors with a perfectly design spec for the obamacare site that was complete and written in stone and said "Hey, can you do all this?". No, they almost certianly went with a vague, poorly defined, and impossible specification that they then changed 46,543 times in the first six weeks, so who is really to say who is at fault that it didn't work? The contractor, who almost certainly agreed to provide something they knew could not be done? The government, who almost certianly asked for something THEY knew could not be done, and then changed what they wanted over the life of the project again and again anyway?

It just isn't as simple as you are making it out to be, and it never, ever is...or rather, maybe it is, but when it is that simple, we never hear about it anyway.

[Admiral Yi]

I can easily see how additional requirements could be built into the project.  However, I think the right and proper thing to do is communicate to the client that these additional requirements could impact the delivery date.  And then document these concerns to cover your ass.

[Berkut]

I can easily see how additional requirements could be built into the project.  However, I think the right and proper thing to do is communicate to the client that these additional requirements could impact the delivery date.  And then document these concerns to cover your ass.

It isn't jsut additional requirements, it is also changing requirements. And of course you build all that in to CYA. What makes you think that didn't happen here? Hell, this is a government project, I am sure the contractors ass is covered six ways from Sunday.

[Admiral Yi]

It isn't jsut additional requirements, it is also changing requirements. And of course you build all that in to CYA. What makes you think that didn't happen here? Hell, this is a government project, I am sure the contractors ass is covered six ways from Sunday.

I would appreciate it if you would share the information that is the basis of your conclusion with me, because at this point I have no idea if the politicos or the contractors muffed it.

[Berkut]

It isn't jsut additional requirements, it is also changing requirements. And of course you build all that in to CYA. What makes you think that didn't happen here? Hell, this is a government project, I am sure the contractors ass is covered six ways from Sunday.

I would appreciate it if you would share the information that is the basis of your conclusion with me, because at this point I have no idea if the politicos or the contractors muffed it.

I am saying that it is likely that they both muffed it, but did so in a 100% predictable manner, and they probably were perfectly aware all along that there was a 0% chance of the project being successful as designed.

And I have no specific information other than 15+ years working on projects just like these (although obviously not as large) and the last several years as a contractor working in professional services where it is my job to try to deliver on the projects sold by others to third parties.

I am not claiming any specific knowledge of this particular project.

[Admiral Yi]

I am saying that it is likely that they both muffed it, but did so in a 100% predictable manner, and they probably were perfectly aware all along that there was a 0% chance of the project being successful as designed.

Then either the flunky who told Sebilius it was good to go on 10/1 is on the hook, or the geek who told the flunky is on the hook.

[CountDeMoney]

Probably more like "my part will be ready, I don't know about anybody else" from all the flunkies at once.

[Admiral Yi]

Probably more like "my part will be ready, I don't know about anybody else" from all the flunkies at once.

I bow before the collective geekerosity of the board, but surely there has to be a lead contractor who's overseeing the whole sheebang.