The Government Shutdown Countdown Lowdown MEGATHREAD

[Berkut]

Ok, not neo-Nazis.

But how they are not the far-right of the American spectrum, I fail to see.

No one is arguing that they are not. They are just saying Nazis are still a couple more notches to the right.

I am not sure about that. People, is the Tea Party a far-right organization?

What difference does it make whether they are or not?

Just because they are far right, and neo-nazis are far right, doesn't make them neo-nazis, or comparable to neo-nazis.

Jesus, sometimes you just won't take off you stupid hat for anything. Your smarter than this - I KNOW you are.

[grumbler]

On a different note:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/republican-failure-may-boost-tea-party/article14824273/

Budget battle may strengthen Tea Party grip on GOP

I've never noted that The Globe and Mail had any real cred when it comes to American politics.  They choose to report on"analysts" who view the current struggle as being the new right against "liberal elites." 

[garbon]

On a different note:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/republican-failure-may-boost-tea-party/article14824273/

Budget battle may strengthen Tea Party grip on GOP

I've never noted that The Globe and Mail had any real cred when it comes to American politics.  They choose to report on"analysts" who view the current struggle as being the new right against "liberal elites." 

This is the part I found interesting.

An Associated Press-GfK poll released Wednesday showed that Republicans in general, but not the Tea Party, are taking the biggest share of the public's blame for the impasse.

And, rather than a malcontent fringe, the poll showed the Tea Party as a powerful and polarizing force among Republicans. More than four in 10 Republicans identified with the Tea Party and were more apt than other Republicans to insist that their leaders hold firm in the standoff.

[Berkut]

Wow, I am shocked that those who identify with the Tea Party are more likely to insist that their leaders hold firm on the Tea Party Stupid platform.

Who would have seen that coming?

[Malthus]

On a different note:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/republican-failure-may-boost-tea-party/article14824273/

Budget battle may strengthen Tea Party grip on GOP

I've never noted that The Globe and Mail had any real cred when it comes to American politics.  They choose to report on"analysts" who view the current struggle as being the new right against "liberal elites."

By and large, Canadians are totally puzzled by current US politics.

But then, I'm unsure of whether they make much sense to Americans, either. 

[garbon]

Wow, I am shocked that those who identify with the Tea Party are more likely to insist that their leaders hold firm on the Tea Party Stupid platform.

Who would have seen that coming?

Okay I'll try yet again.

An Associated Press-GfK poll released Wednesday showed that Republicans in general, but not the Tea Party, are taking the biggest share of the public's blame for the impasse.

And, rather than a malcontent fringe, the poll showed the Tea Party as a powerful and polarizing force among Republicans. More than four in 10 Republicans identified with the Tea Party and were more apt than other Republicans to insist that their leaders hold firm in the standoff.

Though, of course, I didn't look at the poll questions, so I can't say truly what those bits mean - but on the face I hadn't expected either of them.

[grumbler]

No one is arguing that they are not. They are just saying Nazis are still a couple more notches to the right.

No, this isn't it; the difference between National Socialists and libertarians is more than some number of "notches" on the simplistic left-right political axis.  I'd argue that the Tea party types are, in fact, far to the right of the Nazis.  The Nazis espoused policies that don't fit the left-right axis, though, like the individuals subordination to the race, and the need for an all-powerful totalitarian government that can muster the race to conquer territory in order to seed it with more of the master race and out-breed the subraces.  The Tea Party types would oppose such policies far more than the left would.

Now, there also is the Puritan wing of the Republican party, many of whom are also Tea party types, who would welcome a government strong enough to muster the culture and repel the subcultures (they would speak in terms of culture, not race, because even they aren't dumb enough to miss the link between extreme racism and charges of neo-Naziism), but that's not what the Tea Party itself is about.

[Queequeg]

I should have guessed.  It's all been a high-stakes game of intellectual chess.  By feigning pussitude during the first five years of his presidency, only to regain a spine at the last moment, Obama has destroyed the Republican Party for all time.  It's like Cannae, or The Usual Suspects, or something.

Didn't the other side  win after Cannae?

[Grey Fox]

Yes but Tamas was looking for an answer based on the left-right axis.

What is the Tea Party about?

[derspiess]

I've been pretty vocally opposed to the Tea Party and what they represent. That they are the only alternative to Democrats is... terrifying to me. I'd hoped that with time, the Republican Party would move away from social conservatism. I don't see that happening with a stronger Tea Party contingent.

If social conservatism is what horrifies you, then you shouldn't worry quite as much about the Tea Party.  There surely is a bit of latent social conservatism amongst some Tea Party types, but it's social issues are not high up on the agenda.

[Valmy]

If social conservatism is what horrifies you, then you shouldn't worry quite as much about the Tea Party.  There surely is a bit of latent social conservatism amongst some Tea Party types, but it's social issues are not high up on the agenda.

I don't know.  They seem pretty split on this sort of thing.  Sure the Libertarian types do not care but from what I can tell they are the minority group within the Tea Party.

[DGuller]

I've been pretty vocally opposed to the Tea Party and what they represent. That they are the only alternative to Democrats is... terrifying to me. I'd hoped that with time, the Republican Party would move away from social conservatism. I don't see that happening with a stronger Tea Party contingent.

If social conservatism is what horrifies you, then you shouldn't worry quite as much about the Tea Party.  There surely is a bit of latent social conservatism amongst some Tea Party types, but it's social issues are not high up on the agenda.

That's definitely the bullshit some are trying to sell us.

[Gups]

I'm becoming more and more convinced that use of the right-left axis is not just simplistic but misleading. But I guess it's part of our nature to pigeon hole so we'll carry on categorising people and movements.

[derspiess]

I don't know.  They seem pretty split on this sort of thing.  Sure the Libertarian types do not care but from what I can tell they are the minority group within the Tea Party.

Libertarian types have been the driving force in the Tea Party. 

[Malthus]

I'm becoming more and more convinced that use of the right-left axis is not just simplistic but misleading. But I guess it's part of our nature to pigeon hole so we'll carry on categorising people and movements.

Yup. It never made any sense. The Nazis were not a more extreme form of conservatism, and Stalinism was not a more extreme form of liberalism. Neither had anything to do with party politics as we know and love them today (indeed both had nothing but scorn and hatred for such things).