The Government Shutdown Countdown Lowdown MEGATHREAD

[Viking]

ok, to get a clarification, is the technical obstacle the failure of a house resolution or is it the unwillingness of the speaker to put such a resolution to a vote?

As I understand it, Boehner could put a house resolution to a vote this moment and it would pass.

sigh, so the speaker has gone full partisan and just not caring about the process... seriously in most civilized nations speakers are expected to act neutrally. For example the speaker in parliament in england is the only member that never faces a contested election. In norway the office usually goes to a prominent member of the opposition who's last chance at being a minister was winning the latest general election.

[Admiral Yi]

Is your argument that the Republicans actions are legal according to the Constitution and follow Congress' internal rules? Because if you are, you won't get anyone disagreeing with you.

Or are you arguing that the Republicans are not undermining the ability of the American government to function if they get their way? Because if you are, we are in disagreement.

I'll also note that you initially questioned the reasoning behind the position that the Republicans are acting irresponsible by holding the government and US economy hostage, and thus they cannot be given in to; you were not asking about the legality.

What does any of this have to do with the statement "you don't get to pick and choose which existing programs you fund?

[Berkut]

As long as parks are closed, Republicans have to deal with the fact that it's a sitting law that requires funding.

Is there any concievable point at which the narrative switches from "the Republicans are holding the rest of the government hostage to kill Obamacare" to "the Democrats are holding the rest of the government hostage to keep Obamacare?"

Of course - the moment a bill repealing Obamacare is passed, and the Dems refuse to fund the government unless the bill is ignored.

[merithyn]

No I'm not.  I prefer the government stay open.  I would like to see Obamacare funded.*  The Republicans have launched a suicidal gambit that I expect to bit them in the ass.

All that being said, I still think parks being open is better than parks being closed.

*I would prefer they got rid of the voodoo bullshit that "funded" half of Obamacare originally and replaced it with real money.

And you see all of that happening if the Democrats allow this kind of piecemeal budgeting?

[Maximus]

I am unaware of anything in either the Constitution or Congress' internal rules that states an existing program must be funded.

If there were we wouldn't be having this conversation.

That is, perhaps, a part of the problem.

[Jacob]

What does any of this have to do with the statement "you don't get to pick and choose which existing programs you fund?

I don't understand what you're getting at.

[Jacob]

sigh, so the speaker has gone full partisan and just not caring about the process... seriously in most civilized nations speakers are expected to act neutrally. For example the speaker in parliament in england is the only member that never faces a contested election. In norway the office usually goes to a prominent member of the opposition who's last chance at being a minister was winning the latest general election.

There's been a lot of writing about what motivates Boehner. A lot of theories centre around the threat from the Tea party faction to depose him if he doesn't align with them.

[Admiral Yi]

And you see all of that happening if the Democrats allow this kind of piecemeal budgeting?

I see a serious possibility of blockage of parks et al of negatively impacting public perception of Democrats.

[viper37]

I don't think it is a matter of everything or nothing, it is a matter of saying that funding things that are agreed upon while not funding the rest is tantamount to simply passing the House bill that defunds Oabmacare to begin with.

well, that's kinda what I meant, but you worded it better

[viper37]

As I already said, Obama and the Democrats gain open parks.

that does not profit them.  It profits the Republicans.  They can be seen as "reasonable".  And they get less pressure from their constituants.

[merithyn]

And you see all of that happening if the Democrats allow this kind of piecemeal budgeting?

I see a serious possibility of blockage of parks et al of negatively impacting public perception of Democrats.

That didn't answer the question.

[Admiral Yi]

that does not profit them.  It profits the Republicans.  They can be seen as "reasonable".  And they get less pressure from their constituants.

Closed parks profit Democrats as long as the public thinks parks are closed because of Republicans.

[Admiral Yi]

That didn't answer the question.

It was an attempt to.

In the absence of Constitutional or procedural rules forcing funding, this is all a battle for public opinion.

[merithyn]

That didn't answer the question.

It was an attempt to.

In the absence of Constitutional or procedural rules forcing funding, this is all a battle for public opinion.

The question was, do you see the government staying open and Obamacare being funded if the Dems allow this kind of piecemeal budgeting?

[Admiral Yi]

The question was, do you see the government staying open and Obamacare being funded if the Dems allow this kind of piecemeal budgeting?

I don't understand the question.  Will it be a certainty?  Will it increase the chances?  What do you mean?