New Vatican leader raises celibacy question

[Eddie Teach]

Gabriellu exists though, right?

She was always the cuter Thetan.

[Admiral Yi]

I love how Otto will come into a thread and throw up a wall of text restating the last 20+ posts as if it's now true because he has now said it.

He was trying to be informative.  No reason to have a beef with that.

[OttoVonBismarck]

I love how Otto will come into a thread and throw up a wall of text restating the last 20+ posts as if it's now true because he has now said it.

I really just restated Church doctrine. I don't know but I think I'm one of the few actual practicing Catholics on the forums here, so wasn't really sure the rest of you lot would know about this stuff or even know how to look things up in the official Catechism or Canon Law (which I did for my post, and which you'd have no reason to be familiar with if you were a non-Catholic.)

This stuff gets fairly complicated, and I wouldn't be shocked if my parish priest could read over it and find a few nits to pick with how I explained things, but I think I did a fairly encyclopedic style conveying of information on the current position of the church.

As for "as if it's now true because he has now said it", it's only true that what I said reflects official Catholic canon law and teachings. Other questions such as, did Jesus intend for there to be male only priests because he only selected male apostles, did Jesus even intend we have a formal priesthood, did Jesus exist at all, if he existed was he the son of god, does God exist at all or is it all superstition--those are questions of faith/theology, as an atheist I'd be surprised you would even think there is a "true" or "false" answer to those questions--an atheist would reject the whole premise.

[Camerus]

I love how Otto will come into a thread and throw up a wall of text restating the last 20+ posts as if it's now true because he has now said it.

He added a lot of new, relevant information.

[CountDeMoney]

Otto just trafficks in the ecclesiastical truth.
If only more of you over-educated and cynical mutts spent the time learning about Holy Mother Church instead of bullshit ZOMG TEH PEDOPRIEST JOKES, you'd be more accepting of her Grace.

[Camerus]

x2

[garbon]

Otto just trafficks in the ecclesiastical truth.
If only more of you over-educated and cynical mutts spent the time learning about Holy Mother Church instead of bullshit ZOMG TEH PEDOPRIEST JOKES, you'd be more accepting of her Grace.

Unlikely. Seems overly complicated. But I suppose when you have essentially a "professional" class, it has to come up with esoteric rules to continue its dominance.

[CountDeMoney]

Otto just trafficks in the ecclesiastical truth.
If only more of you over-educated and cynical mutts spent the time learning about Holy Mother Church instead of bullshit ZOMG TEH PEDOPRIEST JOKES, you'd be more accepting of her Grace.

Unlikely. Seems overly complicated. But I suppose when you have essentially a "professional" class, it has to come up with esoteric rules to continue its dominance.

There are benefits to institutionalization over centuries.  Imagine how much better off we'd be if Islam had a Pope and a Reformation.

[OttoVonBismarck]

Just as a matter of personal opinion, I'd have less of a problem with female priests than I would married priests. The thing I do like about the vow of celibacy is it creates a class of priests who genuinely can be expected to put their faith, God, and their life of service first and foremost. As a husband and father myself, if I was an ordained Anglican clergyman or something I think obviously I'd put a lot into my vocation but I seriously doubt that in my heart of hearts I'd care more about that aspect of my life than I do my wife and child. So married priests with families creates a dual set of competing responsibilities, when I think rightly one must be supreme.

As a matter of theological debate, though, I do think the Church has a very strong argument as to why it won't ordain women to the priesthood. But just in my opinion, it wouldn't bother me on any sort of personal level to have a female priest, but I do think the Church doctrine is well founded on theological grounds.

[garbon]

Otto just trafficks in the ecclesiastical truth.
If only more of you over-educated and cynical mutts spent the time learning about Holy Mother Church instead of bullshit ZOMG TEH PEDOPRIEST JOKES, you'd be more accepting of her Grace.

Unlikely. Seems overly complicated. But I suppose when you have essentially a "professional" class, it has to come up with esoteric rules to continue its dominance.

There are benefits to institutionalization over centuries.  Imagine how much better off we'd be if Islam had a Pope and a Reformation.

True, religions being weak and impotent is a positive but that's not a reason to join one.

[merithyn]

Otto just trafficks in the ecclesiastical truth.
If only more of you over-educated and cynical mutts spent the time learning about Holy Mother Church instead of bullshit ZOMG TEH PEDOPRIEST JOKES, you'd be more accepting of her Grace.

I spent 20 years studying The Holy Mother Church. That's why I'm no longer Catholic.

[Ed Anger]

Too much kneeling for me.

MAH KNEES

[garbon]

Just as a matter of personal opinion, I'd have less of a problem with female priests than I would married priests. The thing I do like about the vow of celibacy is it creates a class of priests who genuinely can be expected to put their faith, God, and their life of service first and foremost. As a husband and father myself, if I was an ordained Anglican clergyman or something I think obviously I'd put a lot into my vocation but I seriously doubt that in my heart of hearts I'd care more about that aspect of my life than I do my wife and child. So married priests with families creates a dual set of competing responsibilities, when I think rightly one must be supreme.

Or you just get someone who struggles constantly as they are prevented from fully living the life they want to live.

[merithyn]

Just as a matter of personal opinion, I'd have less of a problem with female priests than I would married priests. The thing I do like about the vow of celibacy is it creates a class of priests who genuinely can be expected to put their faith, God, and their life of service first and foremost. As a husband and father myself, if I was an ordained Anglican clergyman or something I think obviously I'd put a lot into my vocation but I seriously doubt that in my heart of hearts I'd care more about that aspect of my life than I do my wife and child. So married priests with families creates a dual set of competing responsibilities, when I think rightly one must be supreme.

I agree that it's impossible to put their life of service before their family, but I think there are other benefits that may balance that. A priest without a family can be more objective, but he can also lose his perspective. It's very easy to stand outside of a situation when you're not entrenched in it, which can leave one potentially losing their empathy.

As a matter of theological debate, though, I do think the Church has a very strong argument as to why it won't ordain women to the priesthood. But just in my opinion, it wouldn't bother me on any sort of personal level to have a female priest, but I do think the Church doctrine is well founded on theological grounds.

There is no question that according to the Catholic doctrine, there is no possible way that women can be priests. They determined 1700 years ago that the role of a priest was to be the manifestation of Christ, which means unless you truly warp what that means, there's no way a woman can stand in those shoes.

That is one of the strongest Canonical beliefs for the religion. Not to keep women out. That's a by-product, I think. No, it's the only way that transubstantiation can occur, through the hands of Christ in the guise of his priests.

[OttoVonBismarck]

My understanding is the Eastern Rite Churches that have married priests do utilize them more for counseling parishioners on marital issues and things of that nature. In general, while I'm sure some are very good at it, I would not expect much in the way of marriage counseling and advice from a parish Priest in terms of good usable every day advice or counseling. The role of the Priest in regard to marriage for example is to reinforce that your marriage is an important vow and not one you can break. I think Catholics who are having marital trouble would do better with secular marriage counseling than going to their local priest.

That's okay for me, as I don't view my relationship with my priest as one designed to help me when I've had a fight with my wife.

It's kind of a weird example, but the Priest in The Sopranos (Father Intintola (sp?)) is a good example of what I'd expect if I went to my Priest seeking marriage counseling.