New Vatican leader raises celibacy question

[Valmy]

I think you have to be married before you get ordained, and if you are married, you can't become a bishop, cardinal or pope. But I'm no expert.

Point is, though, that it is in fact currently possible to be a married Catholic priest, so tyere can't be a binding religious rule prohibiting it.

No it is something very specific involving the Eastern rites that occured as some sort of compromise during the Council of Florence (or perhaps shortly afterwards).  You cannot just get married and then get ordained or tons of Priests would do that.

[Malthus]

I think you have to be married before you get ordained, and if you are married, you can't become a bishop, cardinal or pope. But I'm no expert.

Point is, though, that it is in fact currently possible to be a married Catholic priest, so tyere can't be a binding religious rule prohibiting it.

No it is something very specific involving the Eastern rites that occured as some sort of compromise during the Council of Florence (or perhaps shortly afterwards).  You cannot just get married and then get ordained or tons of Priests would do that.

I know it is specific to the Ukranian rite and not to Catholics generally. I assume it was intended as some sort of compromise. I'm saying that, wthin this rite, my understanding is that if you want to be a married priest, the way to go about it is to marry first and then become a priest.

My point is that, if the Church allows some priests to be married, it cannot with a straight face state that it is an invariable religious rule that priest cannot be married. It cannot be that God commands that all priests not be married (except, you know, those guys. Because we made a deal with them). 

[merithyn]

The only sects the Nicene Council delt with were the Arians and variations on the Donatists who agreed with Orthodoxy on like 99.999% of issues.  There were lots of different sects of Christianity but them all being united under one doctrine was pretty much already done by the time the Nicene Council came around.  I think blaming it on Nicea though makes Constantine, aa pretty cruel and ruthless man, a handy scape goat for the corruption of the church.  Particularly as he got blamed for the material corruption by the phony 'donation of Constantine'.

I tend to blame the Lateran Councils more for the whole "hate women" thing.

[Valmy]

I know it is specific to the Ukranian rite and not to Catholics generally. I assume it was intended as some sort of compromise. I'm saying that, wthin this rite, my understanding is that if you want to be a married priest, the way to go about it is to marry first and then become a priest.

That is wild because I thought even in that rite it was very rare and was reserved only for Orthodox Priests who joined the Catholic faith.

My point is that, if the Church allows some priests to be married, it cannot with a straight face state that it is an invariable religious rule that priest cannot be married. It cannot be that God commands that all priests not be married (except, you know, those guys. Because we made a deal with them). 

Well yes that is true.  BUt as you see this deal with the Eastern Rite is really obscure, very few people outside the Uniates seem to be aware of it at all.  Is this ever mentioned by the media when they address the married priests issue?  Hardly ever that I see.

[merithyn]

I know it is specific to the Ukranian rite and not to Catholics generally. I assume it was intended as some sort of compromise. I'm saying that, wthin this rite, my understanding is that if you want to be a married priest, the way to go about it is to marry first and then become a priest.

My point is that, if the Church allows some priests to be married, it cannot with a straight face state that it is an invariable religious rule that priest cannot be married. It cannot be that God commands that all priests not be married (except, you know, those guys. Because we made a deal with them). 

The church is infallible. It absolutely can do just that.

[merithyn]

That is wild because I thought even in that rite it was very rare and was reserved only for Orthodox Priests who joined the Catholic faith.

Well yes that is true.  BUt as you see this deal with the Eastern Rite is really obscure, very few people outside the Uniates seem to be aware of it at all.  Is this ever mentioned by the media when they address the married priests issue?  Hardly ever that I see.

Anglicans can opt-in, too. The funny thing is that I think they can because Anglicans allow women to be ordained, and so for those Anglicans who disagree with this, they can choose to be Catholic priests, even if they're already married.

[alfred russel]

I imagine a lot of resistance to change comes from priests. People who are priests now signed up to join a priestly culture of unmarried men. A bunch of married guys joining up will wreck that culture. A stray orthodox or anglican convert won't.

[Valmy]

Anglicans can opt-in, too. The funny thing is that I think they can because Anglicans allow women to be ordained, and so for those Anglicans who disagree with this, they can choose to be Catholic priests, even if they're already married.

See if I was British a woman in love with a man who wanted to become a priest I would totally deploy this as a cagey strategy.

[merithyn]

I imagine a lot of resistance to change comes from priests. People who are priests now signed up to join a priestly culture of unmarried men. A bunch of married guys joining up will wreck that culture. A stray orthodox or anglican convert won't.

There's also the fact that those priests gave up on the idea of a family in order to be priests. Now, they're talking about allowing the new guys that option. I think I might be a little upset about that, were it me.

[Valmy]

I imagine a lot of resistance to change comes from priests. People who are priests now signed up to join a priestly culture of unmarried men. A bunch of married guys joining up will wreck that culture. A stray orthodox or anglican convert won't.

No doubt.  The institution of the Priesthood would alter pretty siginificantly and would inevitably lead to many more changes.

[merithyn]

Anglicans can opt-in, too. The funny thing is that I think they can because Anglicans allow women to be ordained, and so for those Anglicans who disagree with this, they can choose to be Catholic priests, even if they're already married.

See if I was British a woman in love with a man who wanted to become a priest I would totally deploy this as a cagey strategy.

Not just British. The same applies to Episcopalians.

[The Brain]

I imagine a lot of resistance to change comes from priests. People who are priests now signed up to join a priestly culture of unmarried men.

They're married to Christ.

[Valmy]

Anglicans can opt-in, too. The funny thing is that I think they can because Anglicans allow women to be ordained, and so for those Anglicans who disagree with this, they can choose to be Catholic priests, even if they're already married.

See if I was British a woman in love with a man who wanted to become a priest I would totally deploy this as a cagey strategy.

Not just British. The same applies to Episcopalians.

Really?  Now that is just getting sloppy Rome.  Granted the Episcopalians would probably get suspicious if suddenly a man in a Catholic seminary suddenly wanted to convert and get ordained.

[merithyn]

I imagine a lot of resistance to change comes from priests. People who are priests now signed up to join a priestly culture of unmarried men.

They're married to Christ.

No, that's the women. The men are the embodiment of Christ.

That's actually the argument for why women cannot be priests. Women cannot become the embodiment of Christ since he was a man, so there is no possible way that women can become priests.

If you believe that priests become the embodiment of Christ, then this makes perfect sense. I can't see that changing in the Catholic church ever.

[Valmy]

Oh sure the actual Christ can have millions of wives but the people embodying him cannot have any?