Police fitness test 'is biased in favour of fat male officers'

[Valmy]

Who hijacked Meri's account in this thread?

She has always had this opinion.   She just wants people treated fairly.  I mean...presuming you were not being sarcastic or something.

[Barrister]

Police fitness test 'is biased in favour of fat male officers' because it prioritises strength

That's because the street prioritizes strength. 

I've seen a female officer tossed around a bar like a rag doll by her hair.  I've had to help a female officer fight to keep her gun in a pile.  I've known female officers with hand strength too weak to break the seal on a can of OC spray.  Been in a lot of situations with female officers where, if they were by themselves, somebody would be dead: either them, or the suspect they'd be forced to shoot because they fail the continuum of force.  Hell, read in the paper not long ago about a female officer that was robbed of her own gun.  IN HER CAR.

5'1" 110lbs female officers are at a distinct disadvantage because of a lack of strength, and wind up putting their male counterparts at a disadvantage as well.  And in the ER with the injuries to prove it.

But that's the thing - does "the street" really prioritize sheer strength?

I won't deny it - a 5'1" 110lb female officer is at a distinct disadvantage if it comes to a physical brawl.  We have some of those over here as well, and I've seen a couple files where things would have gone differently if the officer on scene was a hulking male.

But how often do those kinds of brawls happen?  Pretty infrequently or even rarely.  For 99% of their time, even 99.9% of their time, sheer physical strength isn't important.  And instead there are tremendous advantages to having a diverse police force.  From the purely practical (need female officers to search female prisoners), to investigative (a female officer may be much more likely to get the rape victim to talk).

How do you square that circle?  I dunno.  But there are competing objectives.

[merithyn]

But that's the thing - does "the street" really prioritize sheer strength?

I won't deny it - a 5'1" 110lb female officer is at a distinct disadvantage if it comes to a physical brawl.  We have some of those over here as well, and I've seen a couple files where things would have gone differently if the officer on scene was a hulking male.

But how often do those kinds of brawls happen?  Pretty infrequently or even rarely.  For 99% of their time, even 99.9% of their time, sheer physical strength isn't important.  And instead there are tremendous advantages to having a diverse police force.  From the purely practical (need female officers to search female prisoners), to investigative (a female officer may be much more likely to get the rape victim to talk).

How do you square that circle?  I dunno.  But there are competing objectives.

And 99% of the time, an officer doesn't draw their gun. When they do, I want to know that they can hit what they're aiming for.

[merithyn]

Who hijacked Meri's account in this thread?

She has always had this opinion.   She just wants people treated fairly.  I mean...presuming you were not being sarcastic or something.

Don't confuse them, Valmy.

[Barrister]

But that's the thing - does "the street" really prioritize sheer strength?

I won't deny it - a 5'1" 110lb female officer is at a distinct disadvantage if it comes to a physical brawl.  We have some of those over here as well, and I've seen a couple files where things would have gone differently if the officer on scene was a hulking male.

But how often do those kinds of brawls happen?  Pretty infrequently or even rarely.  For 99% of their time, even 99.9% of their time, sheer physical strength isn't important.  And instead there are tremendous advantages to having a diverse police force.  From the purely practical (need female officers to search female prisoners), to investigative (a female officer may be much more likely to get the rape victim to talk).

How do you square that circle?  I dunno.  But there are competing objectives.

And 99% of the time, an officer doesn't draw their gun. When they do, I want to know that they can hit what they're aiming for.

99.9% of the time an officer draws their firearm, they don't fire it.  Cops can go their entire career without discharging their firearm.

But that being said - basic marksmanship is a teachable skill, and is something every recruit can learn.  It's not something innate like physical size is.

[merithyn]

99.9% of the time an officer draws their firearm, they don't fire it.  Cops can go their entire career without discharging their firearm.

But that being said - basic marksmanship is a teachable skill, and is something every recruit can learn.  It's not something innate like physical size is.

My point is that when it's necessary, I want to know that the officer can do the job. That's my community at stake, and I don't think it's unfair to ask that the officer meets the bare minimum requirements.

What I require, however, is that it is truly the bare minimum requirements to do the job, not some arbitrary physical fitness scheme that has nothing to do with the job. In this particular case, it sounds as though most believe that it is actually what's necessary to do the job.

That being said, I also have no problem with two-tier police forces, either. Meet Physical Standards = street duty. Does Not Meet Physical Standards = desk duty.

[Barrister]

99.9% of the time an officer draws their firearm, they don't fire it.  Cops can go their entire career without discharging their firearm.

But that being said - basic marksmanship is a teachable skill, and is something every recruit can learn.  It's not something innate like physical size is.

My point is that when it's necessary, I want to know that the officer can do the job. That's my community at stake, and I don't think it's unfair to ask that the officer meets the bare minimum requirements.

What I require, however, is that it is truly the bare minimum requirements to do the job, not some arbitrary physical fitness scheme that has nothing to do with the job. In this particular case, it sounds as though most believe that it is actually what's necessary to do the job.

That being said, I also have no problem with two-tier police forces, either. Meet Physical Standards = street duty. Does Not Meet Physical Standards = desk duty.

But what are the "bare minimum requirements to do the job"?  As I mentioned, having female officers is a requirement for any modern police force.  But is it a "bare minimum requirement" to be able to dead lift a 200lb body?

There is a heavy movement to not have uniformed officers doing "desk duty".  Cops are paid a lot of money, and receive a lot of training.  They want uniformed officers on the street, and less highly paid civillian employees doing anything that could be considered "desk duty".

[merithyn]

But what are the "bare minimum requirements to do the job"?  As I mentioned, having female officers is a requirement for any modern police force.  But is it a "bare minimum requirement" to be able to dead lift a 200lb body?

I presume that being able to lift a certain amount would be required. How much? I'm not sure. That would be something for the police to work out based on what they feel is most appropriate. It may be that having to heave a 200-pound person happens once a month. Well, then that's a requirement.

It's no different than saying that someone has to be able to work an adding machine at my job. I may only have to do it twice a month, but when it has to be done, I have to have the knowledge and capability to do so. Only, it's a lot more important when you're talking about police because people, things, and communities are directly affected by an officer not able to do their job. I want to know that I'm safe because the person behind the badge can do what's needs doing.

This whole idea that women can't be strong enough is ludicrous, anyway. It's HARDER for them to do it, but it's not impossible. Fireman-lifting a 200-pound body may be impossible for a 100-pound waif, but then she oughta' get her ass to the gym. If it's what she wants to do, then she's going to have to work for it, just like the guys did.

There is a heavy movement to not have uniformed officers doing "desk duty".  Cops are paid a lot of money, and receive a lot of training.  They want uniformed officers on the street, and less highly paid civillian employees doing anything that could be considered "desk duty".

Okay.

[CountDeMoney]

But that's the thing - does "the street" really prioritize sheer strength?

I won't deny it - a 5'1" 110lb female officer is at a distinct disadvantage if it comes to a physical brawl.  We have some of those over here as well, and I've seen a couple files where things would have gone differently if the officer on scene was a hulking male.

But how often do those kinds of brawls happen?  Pretty infrequently or even rarely.  For 99% of their time, even 99.9% of their time, sheer physical strength isn't important.

Luckily for officers in urban departments, it's very rare to respond to an in-progress incident by yourself;  in cities like Baltimore, another sector car could be two blocks away and arrive at the same time.  But people would be surprised how much tussling you do in a week. 

And instead there are tremendous advantages to having a diverse police force.  From the purely practical (need female officers to search female prisoners), to investigative (a female officer may be much more likely to get the rape victim to talk).

How do you square that circle?  I dunno.  But there are competing objectives.

Of course there's a need for a diverse police force;  it should represent the community it serves.  And I'm not making a blanket statement about all female officers;  I've know plenty that could bring a defensive end to tears very quickly, and the MSP has no problem with female troopers out in the middle of nowhere with backup a long 5 minutes away.  I just don't buy the article's premise from the critics that the physical exam is unjustly tilted towards strength.  In the end, it needs to be.

Granted, I did more running than brawling (and usually it was running back to the fucking car) but in the end you've still got to have the ass for the end of the chase, regardless of how much training you've got in DT.  Teen drug dealers and junkie shoplifters tend to get all squirmy and shit.

[jimmy olsen]

It's no different than saying that someone has to be able to work an adding machine at my job. I may only have to do it twice a month, but when it has to be done, I have to have the knowledge and capability to do so.

Adding machine? Do you work in an office from 1973?

[Admiral Yi]

   Adding machines have big buttons and don't strain the eyes.  What do you want her to use?

[garbon]

It's no different than saying that someone has to be able to work an adding machine at my job. I may only have to do it twice a month, but when it has to be done, I have to have the knowledge and capability to do so.

Adding machine? Do you work in an office from 1973?

[Ed Anger]

I like the ones from the 50's.

[merithyn]

It's no different than saying that someone has to be able to work an adding machine at my job. I may only have to do it twice a month, but when it has to be done, I have to have the knowledge and capability to do so.

Adding machine? Do you work in an office from 1973?

I work in billing. What, exactly, should I be using to tally up accounts?

Yeah, that looks a lot like mine, actually.

[jimmy olsen]

I work in billing. What, exactly, should I be using to tally up accounts?



Yeah, that looks a lot like mine, actually.

Accounting software on a computer.