For CdM: Bullshit jobs

[crazy canuck]

How very lawyerly of you Malthus.

I never said (actually the word you used was "asserted"), for example, that lawyers were not involved in those decisions, I said they did not make those decisions. Those decisions are not driven by them - of course they have influence over them in some cases. So what? The janitor probably ahs influence over them as well, but we don't say the janitor produces anything either.

Not the same thing at all. Of course they are involved - so what? Everyone is "involved" or they would not be there. That doesn't make them producers.

Yeah, thats why people pay lawyers hundreds of dollars an hour.  They are just good window dressing. 

You lawyers sure are sensitive.

No, its just funny to watch people who know nothing about what we do make pronouncements based on their perceptions. Yeah, being a commercial lawyer is just like being a ref.   BB's job may come the closest because he is working for the crown which is kind of like the big ref for all society.  But that is about as far as your analogy can work.  The rest has already been explained to you and it is at least interesting to watch you ignore it.

[Berkut]

How very lawyerly of you Malthus.

I never said (actually the word you used was "asserted"), for example, that lawyers were not involved in those decisions, I said they did not make those decisions. Those decisions are not driven by them - of course they have influence over them in some cases. So what? The janitor probably ahs influence over them as well, but we don't say the janitor produces anything either.

Not the same thing at all. Of course they are involved - so what? Everyone is "involved" or they would not be there. That doesn't make them producers.

Yeah, thats why people pay lawyers hundreds of dollars an hour.  They are just good window dressing. 

You lawyers sure are sensitive.

No, its just funny to watch people who know nothing about what we do make pronouncements based on their perceptions.

I don't have to know anything about what you do except whether or not your produce something that is sold to say you produce nothing from the standpoint of the "production or cost" business division.

Yeah, being a commercial lawyer is just like being a ref.

To the extent that it is division of the business that is a cost rather than a profit center, it is just like being a ref.

What is amusing is how I've used about a hundred examples of various business activities that are costs rather than profit centers, and you focus on one and dismiss it based on factors that have nothing to do with the analogy.

Its like saying apples are not like pears because apple starts with a, and pear starts with p, so how can you say they are both fruit?

BB's job may come the closest because he is working for the crown which is kind of like the big ref for all society.  But that is about as far as your analogy can work.  The rest has already been explained to you and it is at least interesting to watch you ignore it.

I ignore "the rest" because it has nothing to do with whether or not commercial lawyers are a cost or profit center.

What is really funny is the level of butt hurt you guys get at the thought that you don't produce something that the business sells.

It is the flip side to the falalcy the author makes - what is really funny is that you accept his fallacy so you can be all offended at his fallacious conclusion.

It is ok that your job is part of the cost of doing business, rather than the part of the business that directly produces profits. Most jobs are, in fact.

[Berkut]

This entire argument in a nutshell.

Berkut: Lawyers produce nothing of value.
Lawyers: ZOMG YOU SAY ARE JOB IS WORTHLESS! DIAF! WE ARE SO IMPORTANT!
Berklut: That isn't what I meant. I wasn't speaking in a general sense, but in a specific sense of whether you are part of the cost or production parts of the business model.
Lawyers: OUR JOB IS SUPER IMPORTANT WE TOTALLY PRODUCE SUPER IMPORTANT STUFF THE BUSINESS WOULD IMPLODE WITHOUT US! DAMN YOU TO HELLL YOU BSTARD!
Berkut: Yeah, you guys are totally important, lots of people who are not direct producers are important.
LAWYERS: I CANNOT BELIEVE YOU SAID WE DONT PRODUCE ANYTHING! THAT IS SO MEAN! YOU JUST DONT UNDERSTAND US BECAUSE OUR JOBS ARE SO COMPLICATED!
Berkut: Yeah, I get that. I am not saying...
LAWYERS: WE MATTER! WE TOTALLY MATTER A LOT! WE ARE VERY VERY VERY IMPORTANT!
Berkut: Yes, of course you are, you just don't actually produce...
LAWYERS: AHHHHH!!!!! HE IS SAYING IT AGAIN!!!!!! BERKUT IS STOOPID!!!!!

[Grey Fox]

Yep, lawyers.

[KRonn]

All this arguing back and forth...I think you guys need a good lawyer to sort it all out. 

[Syt]

This entire argument in a nutshell.

Berkut: Lawyers produce nothing of value.
Lawyers: ZOMG YOU SAY ARE JOB IS WORTHLESS! DIAF! WE ARE SO IMPORTANT!
Berklut: That isn't what I meant. I wasn't speaking in a general sense, but in a specific sense of whether you are part of the cost or production parts of the business model.
Lawyers: OUR JOB IS SUPER IMPORTANT WE TOTALLY PRODUCE SUPER IMPORTANT STUFF THE BUSINESS WOULD IMPLODE WITHOUT US! DAMN YOU TO HELLL YOU BSTARD!
Berkut: Yeah, you guys are totally important, lots of people who are not direct producers are important.
LAWYERS: I CANNOT BELIEVE YOU SAID WE DONT PRODUCE ANYTHING! THAT IS SO MEAN! YOU JUST DONT UNDERSTAND US BECAUSE OUR JOBS ARE SO COMPLICATED!
Berkut: Yeah, I get that. I am not saying...
LAWYERS: WE MATTER! WE TOTALLY MATTER A LOT! WE ARE VERY VERY VERY IMPORTANT!
Berkut: Yes, of course you are, you just don't actually produce...
LAWYERS: AHHHHH!!!!! HE IS SAYING IT AGAIN!!!!!! BERKUT IS STOOPID!!!!!

[crazy canuck]

I don't have to know anything about what you do except whether or not your produce something that is sold to say you produce nothing from the standpoint of the "production or cost" business division.

Yeah, as already pointed out your lack of knowledge of what actually occurs drives you to the error of creating an overly narrow defintion.

[Berkut]

I don't have to know anything about what you do except whether or not your produce something that is sold to say you produce nothing from the standpoint of the "production or cost" business division.

Yeah, as already pointed out your lack of knowledge of what actually occurs drives you to the error of creating an overly narrow defintion.

It isn't my definition. I did not create it. It just is "the" definition of a cost center as opposed to a production or profit center. You have to tell us what occurs that would move commercial lawyering from the cost to the profit center.

Your inability to get out of your self centered arrogance drives you to create the error that everything revolves around you.

[Berkut]

All this arguing back and forth...I think you guys need a good lawyer to sort it all out. 

Indeed.

Although it is hard to say, because apparently only lawyers can possibly even understand what it is that lawyers even do.

[Zanza]

You have to tell us what occurs that would move commercial lawyering from the cost to the profit center.

Being a lawfirm.

[crazy canuck]

Your inability to get out of your self centered arrogance drives you to create the error that everything revolves around you.

You should not look in the mirror while posting.

[Barrister]

All this arguing back and forth...I think you guys need a good lawyer to sort it all out. 

Indeed.

Although it is hard to say, because apparently only lawyers can possibly even understand what it is that lawyers even do.

Except quite frequently I am quite befuddled as to what, exactly, defence lawyers are doing...

[Eddie Teach]

Except quite frequently I am quite befuddled as to what, exactly, defence lawyers are doing...

Even after they've done it?

[Zanza]

Except quite frequently I am quite befuddled as to what, exactly, defence lawyers are doing...

Make sure you do your work right.

[Barrister]

Except quite frequently I am quite befuddled as to what, exactly, defence lawyers are doing...

Even after they've done it?

Yes.

There are many who are quite good at what they're doing, and I know exactly what it is they are doing.  But I minority I can't help but think WTF did I just see???