Seriously, This Is As Bad As The Nazis.

[Sheilbh]

He just seems a lot like a slightly drunk golfer.

[garbon]

Hmm, seems odd that we've veered away from the tougher subject of people being attacked and what to do - and into when people say not nice things.

[Sheilbh]

One notable exception is the gay right campaigner Peter Tatchell who support peoples 'rights to offend others'.

God I love Peter Tatchell

I disagree with him on so very many things but he's great.

[Admiral Yi]

I don't think it's even what could be called PC, unfortunately it's a cultural shift. 

You could also say people are now afraid to speak their mind.

Very few people stand up to this lowest common denominator approach to public life/discourse. 

One notable exception is the gay right campaigner Peter Tatchell who support peoples 'rights to offend others'.

I think it's entirely to do with political correctness.

In the old paradigm we arrived at a culture-wide consensus on what is and is not good manners.  Then with women's lib, civil rights, and the gay movement, people began protesting that what was acceptable to the majority/establishment was not acceptable to them.  So we ceded control over public discourse about women, minorities, and gays to women, minorities, and gays.

[mongers]

One notable exception is the gay right campaigner Peter Tatchell who support peoples 'rights to offend others'.

God I love Peter Tatchell

I disagree with him on so very many things but he's great.

Yes. 

I probably agree with him on a lot more things than you do.

[Richard Hakluyt]

Agreed, his personal bravery alone is sufficient to merit respect, but he is also a person with high principles.........bloody irritating at times of course 

[Sheilbh]

In the old paradigm we arrived at a culture-wide consensus on what is and is not good manners.

I think the obvious question is who was 'we'?

I always think of Martin Amis on Larkin when it comes to PR:

P.C. begins with the very American--and attractive and honorable--idea that no one should feel ashamed of what he was born as, of what he is. Of what he does, of what he says, yes; but not ashamed of what he is. Viewed at its grandest, P.C. is an attempt to accelerate evolution. To speak truthfully, while that's still O.K., everybody is "racist," or has racial prejudices. This is because human beings tend to like the similar, the familiar, the familial. I am a racist; I am not as racist as my parents; my children will not be as racist as I am. (Larkin was less racist than his parents; his children would have been less racist than he.) Freedom from racial prejudice is what we hope for, down the line. Impatient with this hope, this process, P.C. seeks to get the thing done right now--in a generation. To achieve this, it will need a busy executive wing, and much invigilation. What it will actually entrain is another ton of false consciousness, to add to the megatons of false consciousness already aboard, and then a backlash.

Of course it would take monumental effort for Martin Amis to be more racist than Kingsley Amis, but I think he's actually right. But, largely it's worked so far.

Agreed, his personal bravery alone is sufficient to merit respect, but he is also a person with high principles.........bloody irritating at times of course 

Yep. Almost the exact opposite of Simon Hughes. I'm glad, though, that Hughes won that election.

[Jacob]

Then why the fuck did you bring it up? 

I didn't, though in retrospect I guess I expressed myself unclearly.

When I said "as long as it does not hurt others" I meant just that - hurt - not offend. I.e. I was referring to such self-expression as "my sexuality involves fucking 5-year olds", which if engaged in would hurt others - namely the 5-year olds getting fucked.

Or, "I believe in that god only sanctions gay marriage" - feel free to express that belief, as long as you do not hurt others by abridging their right to get married to someone of the opposite sex.

I.e. "hurt" = "abridge the human rights of others"; not "hurt" = "I'm upset about what you said"

[Admiral Yi]

10-4.

[Jacob]

10-4.

So I guess we're on the same page re: "freedom from hearing things that I disagree with" as a human right

I still contend that that has little to nothing to do with what's going on in Russia.

[Sheilbh]

Here's the view from Russia Today:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyhOlvUocN8&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DKyhOlvUocN8&nomobile=1

[garbon]

When I was at Stonewall Inn last week, someone tried to order stoli and got told that vodka wasn't available because of the boycott.

[Admiral Yi]

I think the obvious question is who was 'we'?

Bigoted, sexist, gay-hating white men.

But it doesn't follow from that that the current way of doing things is incapable of improvement.

[Sheilbh]

But it doesn't follow from that that the current way of doing things is incapable of improvement.

No. I wouldn't agree with your characterisation of it. But it's certainly an improvement.

[The Brain]

Stockholm Pride was reported to the police for racism. There was allegedly one guy in the parade in blackface.