Black boxes, new cars, you don't own what yours record

[Zanza]

As long as it is only used based on a court order after accidents to evaluate the cause, I don't see a privacy problem.

I guess anonymous usage by car manufacturers to analyze accidents is also acceptable as long as the owner - which should clearly be the vehicle owner - agrees.

[Barrister]

As long as it is only used based on a court order after accidents to evaluate the cause, I don't see a privacy problem.

I guess anonymous usage by car manufacturers to analyze accidents is also acceptable as long as the owner - which should clearly be the vehicle owner - agrees.

Why should it need a court order?

Given the highly regulated world of driving the police rarely need warrants when it comes to driving offences.

[Zanza]

Can they confiscate a car after a crash without a court order to evaluate the cause of the crash?

[fhdz]

Can they confiscate a car after a crash without a court order to evaluate the cause of the crash?

If somebody dies, isn't the car automatically potential manslaughter evidence?

[Barrister]

Can they confiscate a car after a crash without a court order to evaluate the cause of the crash?

Off the top of my head, yes.  I frequently get mechanical analysis of vehicles after a serious crash.

[Barrister]

Can they confiscate a car after a crash without a court order to evaluate the cause of the crash?

If somebody dies, isn't the car automatically potential manslaughter evidence?

Even if someone doesn't die, it is still evidence.

Police don't do it for small accidents due to resources.

[Zanza]

Can they confiscate a car after a crash without a court order to evaluate the cause of the crash?

Off the top of my head, yes.  I frequently get mechanical analysis of vehicles after a serious crash.

Well, the prosecutor only gets involved in case there is a suspicion of a crime, right? The EDR data should follow the same procedures to make it court-admissible evidence as any other type of private data that the suspect owns. Do you need some kind of warrant or similar for other types of private data? Let's say ordering a BAC test?

[Barrister]

Can they confiscate a car after a crash without a court order to evaluate the cause of the crash?

Off the top of my head, yes.  I frequently get mechanical analysis of vehicles after a serious crash.

Well, the prosecutor only gets involved in case there is a suspicion of a crime, right? The EDR data should follow the same procedures to make it court-admissible evidence as any other type of private data that the suspect owns. Do you need some kind of warrant or similar for other types of private data? Let's say ordering a BAC test?

No warrant.  Officer needs to have 'reasonable and probably grounds to believe an offence has been committed'.

[Zanza]

No warrant.  Officer needs to have 'reasonable and probably grounds to believe an offence has been committed'.

Ok. Over here they may only do a warrantless blood test in case of "exigent circumstance", which is typically not the case with a BAC test as it isn't an emergency and there is no danger from the driver anymore when police has already picked him up. Googling suggests that the US Supreme Court has a similar view on this, which I find reasonable (Missouri v. McNeely, 2013).

[Neil]

You know Beeb, you have this way of putting forward law and the police as the most perverse and evil people imaginable.  Sometimes, I almost wonder if you're an anarchist mole.

[Barrister]

You know Beeb, you have this way of putting forward law and the police as the most perverse and evil people imaginable.  Sometimes, I almost wonder if you're an anarchist mole.

[DGuller]

You know Beeb, you have this way of putting forward law and the police as the most perverse and evil people imaginable.  Sometimes, I almost wonder if you're an anarchist mole.

[Neil]

You know Beeb, you have this way of putting forward law and the police as the most perverse and evil people imaginable.  Sometimes, I almost wonder if you're an anarchist mole.

I just felt the bit that the only thing keeping cops from stealing every car involved in a fender-bender was a lack of resources portrayed them as a little villainous.

[Barrister]

You know Beeb, you have this way of putting forward law and the police as the most perverse and evil people imaginable.  Sometimes, I almost wonder if you're an anarchist mole.

I just felt the bit that the only thing keeping cops from stealing every car involved in a fender-bender was a lack of resources portrayed them as a little villainous.

*sigh*

I get frustrated trying to discuss the intricacies of criminal law amongst people who have zero experience in it.

There are plenty of means to prevent police from stealing cars.  There is an administrative procedure to get your car back from impound.  You can apply for judicial review of the seizure.  Police can only hold it for so long before they need judicial authorization.  You can sue the police if they haven't followed proper procedure.

[Neil]

But if criminal law wasn't so intricate, then the priesthood could hardly make a living.  And since legislators and judges are often lawyers, they'll do their very best to make sure that things are as complex as possible.