The future of the work force

[Admiral Yi]

Did you address unemployment and stagnating wages?  I can't tell what you're trying to say in that middle paragraph.

[MadImmortalMan]

If our national firm can print, then why should it do anything else? I don't get that bit.

[Admiral Yi]

If our national firm can print, then why should it do anything else? I don't get that bit.

I believe Ide is referring to the ability of independent central banks to inflate away national debts.

[Ideologue]

It's Europe big problem.  The other problem being idled capacity.

As for the unemployment, there would be a idle class.  They'd live, if not tremendously well, but in some comfort.

Indeed, this would be as important to capitalism as it would be to a centrally planned economy, cf. Milton Freidman.  In both cases, it liberalizes the labor market, in the sense that it frees potential workers from the biological necessity of a wage.  As a side benefit, wages would have to remain competitive with doing nothing.

We already have an idled class.  It'll only get larger.  Time to embrace it.

Working should always be the superior choice, but not the only choice.  Failure to perform adequately would have much the same consequences as present, eventually resulting in permanently being removed from the labor market.  The difference is that this transition would not be as potentially catastrophic, and marginal labor market participants could give up with more dignity instead of depressing wages for people who don't suck.

[Admiral Yi]

OK, so 40 million people on permanent disability.

How about stagnating wages?  How does your centrally planned economy take care of that?

[Josquius]

In Europe its the liberal countries which are running into trouble.
The socialist north is doing pretty well.

[Admiral Yi]

In Europe its the liberal countries which are running into trouble.
The socialist north is doing pretty well.

You're talking about madcap libertarian Greece, Italy, Spain and Portugal?

[Valmy]

There are a few workers' paradises left in the world that one could probably emigrate to if one wished.

Sweden being in the European Union certainly makes that possibility greater...true.

But of course one would have to tolerate the weather and always night winters and obnoxious accents.

[Valmy]

In Europe its the liberal countries which are running into trouble.
The socialist north is doing pretty well.

You're talking about madcap libertarian Greece, Italy, Spain and Portugal?

I think he is talking about Britain and friends.

[The Brain]

There are a few workers' paradises left in the world that one could probably emigrate to if one wished.

Sweden being in the European Union certainly makes that possibility greater...true.

But of course one would have to tolerate the weather and always night winters and obnoxious accents.

Which accents might that be?

[Barrister]

There are a few workers' paradises left in the world that one could probably emigrate to if one wished.

Sweden being in the European Union certainly makes that possibility greater...true.

But of course one would have to tolerate the weather and always night winters and obnoxious accents.

Which accents might that be?

Come on - even as a native Swede you must get annoyed by the constant "bork bork bork!" refrain.

[crazy canuck]

Yeah, people needed servants before the invention of washing machines etc because it was hard long work to get the household chores done.

Those once hard to do tasks are as simple as pushing a button now.

To an extent, but I would like to have a team of people to cater to my families needs and keep my affairs in order.

Yes but there is a difference between want and need.  If it took 6 hours a day to do the laundry you and I would for sure be hiring some domestic help to do it otherwise it would not get done.  But with modern appliances domestic services are a luxury because we can do those chores easily ourselves and so we choose to spend our money on other things.

That is why I brought up the point of minimum wage laws.  The utility of domestic help in today's world would never be the same as it was back in the day when domestic servants were common.

[garbon]

Yeah, people needed servants before the invention of washing machines etc because it was hard long work to get the household chores done.

Those once hard to do tasks are as simple as pushing a button now.

To an extent, but I would like to have a team of people to cater to my families needs and keep my affairs in order.

Yes but there is a difference between want and need.  If it took 6 hours a day to do the laundry you and I would for sure be hiring some domestic help to do it otherwise it would not get done.  But with modern appliances domestic services are a luxury because we can do those chores easily ourselves and so we choose to spend our money on other things.

That is why I brought up the point of minimum wage laws.  The utility of domestic help in today's world would never be the same as it was back in the day when domestic servants were common.

Maybe though I can tell you that if I had to spend the roughly 2-3 hours at the laundromat doing my own laundry, it also wouldn't get done. That's why I have my guy downstairs who takes care of it.

[alfred russel]

Yes but there is a difference between want and need.  If it took 6 hours a day to do the laundry you and I would for sure be hiring some domestic help to do it otherwise it would not get done.  But with modern appliances domestic services are a luxury because we can do those chores easily ourselves and so we choose to spend our money on other things.

That is why I brought up the point of minimum wage laws.  The utility of domestic help in today's world would never be the same as it was back in the day when domestic servants were common.

So you agree there is the demand, the question is why isn't there the supply?

I would be willing to pay subsistence level wages (ie, minimum wage) to a couple of quality people in order to take care of ordinary day to day tasks (grocery shopping, driving, cooking, routine tasks such as basic banking, childcare, etc). The problem is that such quality people can not be hired for such low wages and be expected to stick around for any length of time. Such quality people have other opportunities that pay more and are more interesting.

That isn't true in much of the modern world--better opportunities for quality people often do not exist. Thus in many developing countries  it is still common for normal people to have full time domestic help. This type of situation would happen before we ended up with some dystopian level of permanent unemployed.

[crazy canuck]

Yes but there is a difference between want and need.  If it took 6 hours a day to do the laundry you and I would for sure be hiring some domestic help to do it otherwise it would not get done.  But with modern appliances domestic services are a luxury because we can do those chores easily ourselves and so we choose to spend our money on other things.

That is why I brought up the point of minimum wage laws.  The utility of domestic help in today's world would never be the same as it was back in the day when domestic servants were common.

So you agree there is the demand, the question is why isn't there the supply?

How did you get my agreement that there is a demand out of that     Nobody in their right mind would spend money on that kind of luxury item when there are so many more pressing demands on household income.