The future of the work force

[crazy canuck]

Maybe though I can tell you that if I had to spend the roughly 2-3 hours at the laundromat doing my own laundry, it also wouldn't get done. That's why I have my guy downstairs who takes care of it.

My example only included people that had access to modern conveniences.  You do not and so you need to make other arrangements.

[garbon]

Maybe though I can tell you that if I had to spend the roughly 2-3 hours at the laundromat doing my own laundry, it also wouldn't get done. That's why I have my guy downstairs who takes care of it.

My example only included people that had access to modern conveniences.  You do not and so you need to make other arrangements.

Yes because if you take washing machines and put them in a laundromat, you suddenly lose access to modern conveniences.

[Berkut]

Maybe though I can tell you that if I had to spend the roughly 2-3 hours at the laundromat doing my own laundry, it also wouldn't get done. That's why I have my guy downstairs who takes care of it.

My example only included people that had access to modern conveniences.  You do not and so you need to make other arrangements.

Yes because if you take washing machines and put them in a laundromat, you suddenly lose access to modern conveniences.

If the "you" in question is the person who doesn't have a washing machine in their apartment, and the "modern convenience" in question is said washing machine...then why are you arguing his point?

You do not in fact have access to this particular modern convenience, and hence it is more worth your resources to pay someone else instead.

This doesn't strike me as particularly controversial.

[crazy canuck]

Maybe though I can tell you that if I had to spend the roughly 2-3 hours at the laundromat doing my own laundry, it also wouldn't get done. That's why I have my guy downstairs who takes care of it.

My example only included people that had access to modern conveniences.  You do not and so you need to make other arrangements.

Yes because if you take washing machines and put them in a laundromat, you suddenly lose access to modern conveniences.

Yeah, that is exactly the point you made when you said you need to spend  "roughly 2-3 hours sitting at a laundromat".   

[garbon]

Maybe though I can tell you that if I had to spend the roughly 2-3 hours at the laundromat doing my own laundry, it also wouldn't get done. That's why I have my guy downstairs who takes care of it.

My example only included people that had access to modern conveniences.  You do not and so you need to make other arrangements.

Yes because if you take washing machines and put them in a laundromat, you suddenly lose access to modern conveniences.

If the "you" in question is the person who doesn't have a washing machine in their apartment, and the "modern convenience" in question is said washing machine...then why are you arguing his point?

You do not in fact have access to this particular modern convenience, and hence it is more worth your resources to pay someone else instead.

This doesn't strike me as particularly controversial.

I do have access to it though. I could walk down the street to it.

[crazy canuck]

I do have access to it though. I could walk down the street to it.

I think you might be missing the point that you need to sit at the laundromat for several hours to do this chore which is a very difference experience from those of us who have ready access to washers and dryers in our own homes.  We get to put the laundry in and leave to do whatever it is we want to do.  That is a big part of the convenience.

[garbon]

I do have access to it though. I could walk down the street to it.

I think you might be missing the point that you need to sit at the laundromat for several hours to do this chore which is a very difference experience from those of us who have ready access to washers and dryers in our own homes.  We get to put the laundry in and leave to do whatever it is we want to do.  That is a big part of the convenience.

I do recognize that and that's why I don't go to the laundromat.

[crazy canuck]

I do have access to it though. I could walk down the street to it.

I think you might be missing the point that you need to sit at the laundromat for several hours to do this chore which is a very difference experience from those of us who have ready access to washers and dryers in our own homes.  We get to put the laundry in and leave to do whatever it is we want to do.  That is a big part of the convenience.

I do recognize that and that's why I don't go to the laundromat.

Then why the hell are you arguing with me 

[alfred russel]

Yes but there is a difference between want and need.  If it took 6 hours a day to do the laundry you and I would for sure be hiring some domestic help to do it otherwise it would not get done.  But with modern appliances domestic services are a luxury because we can do those chores easily ourselves and so we choose to spend our money on other things.

That is why I brought up the point of minimum wage laws.  The utility of domestic help in today's world would never be the same as it was back in the day when domestic servants were common.

So you agree there is the demand, the question is why isn't there the supply?

How did you get my agreement that there is a demand out of that     Nobody in their right mind would spend money on that kind of luxury item when there are so many more pressing demands on household income.

That is the way supply and demand curves work...What you wrote indicates there is demand, but demand that is uneconomical with the current supply curve.

[katmai]

I do have access to it though. I could walk down the street to it.

I think you might be missing the point that you need to sit at the laundromat for several hours to do this chore which is a very difference experience from those of us who have ready access to washers and dryers in our own homes.  We get to put the laundry in and leave to do whatever it is we want to do.  That is a big part of the convenience.

I do recognize that and that's why I don't go to the laundromat.

Then why the hell are you arguing with me 

Hello and welcome to Languish!

[garbon]

I do have access to it though. I could walk down the street to it.

I think you might be missing the point that you need to sit at the laundromat for several hours to do this chore which is a very difference experience from those of us who have ready access to washers and dryers in our own homes.  We get to put the laundry in and leave to do whatever it is we want to do.  That is a big part of the convenience.

I do recognize that and that's why I don't go to the laundromat.

Then why the hell are you arguing with me 

Hello and welcome to Languish!

[Ideologue]

OK, so 40 million people on permanent disability.

How about stagnating wages?  How does your centrally planned economy take care of that?

Real wages would always increase as productivity per unit of labor grows.  Even the guaranteed income would grow in real terms.

This is the opposite of the case in the current system, where the benefits of productivity gains are experienced directly only by the owning class, and only indirectly by consumers, who often find those benefits cancelled out by being laid off either immediately or later due to the periodic and ultimately permanent collapse in demand capitalist economics occasions.

[Admiral Yi]

Real wages would always increase as productivity per unit of labor grows.  Even the guaranteed income would grow in real terms.

How does your Planning Committee decide which national subsidiary gets the capital, and therefore the raises?

[Ideologue]

"Key industries" are key for a reason: they're indispensible to the basic function of the national economy.  Why, then, would workers doing the same type of work be paid more or less than other workers, when their work is equally important?  Use an analogue of the GS system.

As for allocation of capital--which is distinct from establishing a payroll fund out of gross corporate income--that I happily leave in my fictional Planning Committee's expert hands.  I don't know anything about running an oil company.

[Admiral Yi]

We're talking past each other.

When you say pay increases come from productivity, do you mean all workers get pay increases for changes in national average productivity, or by industry, or by individual, or what?