Phantom train explosion in Lac Mégantic

[DGuller]

Wtf is that kind of standard procedure to leave such a train unattended after a fire???

Would you be asking that question if that train didn't level the whole town?

[viper37]

Would you be asking that question if that train didn't level the whole town?

I would never have heard of it...

[KRonn]

We know a little more about the accident.

2hrs before the accident, the firemen from the next city were called to extinguish a fire in one of the locomotives.  A representative of the company was there and assured the firemen everything was ok, after which they left.  Then the MM&A guys left too, leaving the train unattended.  Shortly after, the air brakes were released and the train started moving by itself.

This is standard procedure apparently.

Wtf is that kind of standard procedure to leave such a train unattended after a fire???

Waiting to find out if they can figure how the brakes released. How secure are the trains I wonder? Can they be properly secured from break ins? And if someone unauthorized does get in, is there any security or keys or what ever that would prevent them from accessing the train's systems?

So if the train cockpits and controls are accessible to unauthorized entry, could this have been a type of planned out terrorist attack? Last week there was a case of someone in Canada caught before he could commit an act, a bomb I think, as I forget the details.

[viper37]

Terrorism has been ruled out by the police.  First, it's a small city of about 6000 people, and that includes summer residents.

Negligence and sabotage are on the table for now, but it doesn't look good for the company.  Even if it's sabotage, if they left their train unatended and unlocked... well...

The Sureté du Québec has revised the provisional death toll of the accident:  we are now at 13 confirmed deaths and about 50 missing.  While officially, they are awaiting the results of their investigation to confirm 50 more dead people, by now, on the 3rd day, if the people living in the area haven't given any news to their family, friends, significant other...
Oh boy.  I'm getting hyper emotional with this.

[jimmy olsen]

Looks like the cause is becoming clear

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/07/08/40-still-missing-in-deadly-canada-oil-train-crash/2497875/

Brakes had been disabled in fatal oil train crash

Quebec town is bracing for rising death toll as firefighters reach hardest hit areas.

The air brakes on the runaway oil train that devastated a Quebec town early Saturday had been disabled by firefighters who were called to extinguish a blaze aboard one of the locomotives 90 minutes before the disaster, the head of the railway said Monday.

The news came as authorities recovered eight more bodies from the devastation in Lac-Megantic, raising the death toll to 13, with about 40 people still missing and feared dead.

The train exploded in a series of fireballs after it careened eight miles down a sloping siding and derailed about 1 a.m. ET Saturday. All but one of the 73 tanker cars were carrying crude oil from North Dakota to a refinery in New Brunswick, and at least five exploded.

Volunteer firefighters in nearby Nantes had been called about 11:30 p.m. Friday to extinguish a blaze in one of the five locomotives, Fire Chief Patrick Lambert told The Montreal Gazette.

He told Reuters that firefighters had shut down the locomotive while they battled the fire, which was apparently caused by a broken oil or fuel line. But the train's crew had left the engine idling to keep the air brakes pressurized so the train wouldn't roll, said Ed Burkhardt, chairman of Montreal, Maine & Atlantic Railway.

Lambert said the local railway dispatcher was contacted to report the engine fire had been put out. "We told them what we did and how we did it," he said.

"There was no discussion of the brakes at that time," he added. "We were there for the train fire. As for the inspection of the train after the fact, that was up to them."

What the dispatcher did after speaking with the Nantes fire service was not immediately clear. Burkhardt said that if the engine had been shut down, "someone should have made a report to the local railroad about that." He said the train's operator was staying at a nearby hotel.

Andre Gendron, who lives next to the rail yard, told Reuters that about five minutes after firefighters left, "I felt the vibration of a train moving down the track. I then saw the train move by without its lights on."

"It wasn't long after that I heard the explosion," he said.

As searchers slowly worked their way through the smoldering devastation Monday, firefighters doused two oil-filled cars with water and foam to keep them from overheating and exploding.

Many of those missing were believed to have been drinking at a popular downtown bar in the lakeside town of 6,000, near the Maine border. Crews had not yet reached the night spot, Quebec provincial police Sgt. Benoit Richard said Monday morning.

Anne-Julie Huot, 27, said at least five friends and about 20 acquaintances remained unaccounted for.

"I have a friend who was smoking outside the bar when it happened, and she barely got away, so we can guess what happened to the people inside," Huot said. "It's like a nightmare."

A coroner's spokeswoman said it may not be possible to recover some of the bodies because of the intensity of the blasts. Spokeswoman Geneviève Guilbault said the bodies are so badly burned that identifying them could take a long time.

The explosion and flames forced about a third of the community of 6,000 from their homes. About 1,500 may be able to return home Tuesday, authorities said.

[Liep]

Fire fighters here have training in dealing with train accidents and I'm positive they would know that if they turned off the engine they'd disable the air brakes. Somebody must've and should've know about this.

[CountDeMoney]

Fire fighters here have training in dealing with train accidents and I'm positive they would know that if they turned off the engine they'd disable the air brakes. Somebody must've and should've know about this.

Not necessarily.  These were volunteer firefighters.  They don't always get the training.

Although, I still don't understand why the train was left unattended;  I've been doing some research on rail since I've applied for a couple of trainee programs recently, and I haven't seen any reason why a HAZMAT train would be left unattended during downtime.  Then again, that's why Americans hate unions.

[Liep]

If not the fire fighters, it still sounds incredible that there was no one checking the train after a fire.

Here it's strictly verboten to leave a train unattended with only air brakes on anyway, hazmat or not.

[CountDeMoney]

Here it's strictly verboten to leave a train unattended with only air brakes on anyway, hazmat or not.

No kidding.  I mean, if the engine is running simply to keep the air brakes energized, it's technically still in service, right?  That's what I don't get.

[KRonn]

Yeah, the whole thing of leaving the train running for the brakes to be on, leaving it unattended, seems risky, waiting for trouble. Double that especially after an engine fire. Just for the fire you'd think a railroad rep or someone was there to secure things. Hard to tell from the article and all info isn't in yet.  How about other brakes, on all locamotives, or on some of the train cars, if the train is going to be left unattended for a while? It sounds like one set of brakes failed when an engine was shut down. But have to wait for more info.

[Jacob]

Yeah, it certainly seems like some safety codes and practices need updating.

While the firefighters and railway company and conductor each may have some measure of responsibility in terms of negligence, it really seems like there should be some safety measures and procedures in place, backed by the force of law.

If such procedures exist and weren't followed, then culpability is pretty easy to assign. If not, then the real issue is that they didn't exist IMO.

[Savonarola]

Leaving the train running to keep the brakes energized doesn't make sense at all.  Air brakes on a train operate by negative pressure, when there is no air in the line the train is stopped.  It's a safety feature so that when the brake line is cut the train stops.

[DGuller]

Leaving the train running to keep the brakes energized doesn't make sense at all.  Air brakes on a train operate by negative pressure, when there is no air in the line the train is stopped.  It's a safety feature so that when the brake line is cut the train stops.

Yeah, now that I think about it, it makes absolutely no sense.  You would think that any system to critical to the operation would default to a safe mode in case of a power loss.

[viper37]

The Transportation Safety Board has contradicted the company's CEO.

MMA employee's were present while the firefighter extinguished the fire, and they're the one who said the engine was to be cut off.
MMA employee's gave the firefighters the go ahead saying everything was under control.  Then they left.  They never tried to reach the engineer who parked his train.

Even if the air brake had been released, there are other breaks, manually activated, on the train wagons.  These obviously did not work.

Aside that... the train was left unattended on the main railway, not the secondary one.  Had it been on the other way, it would have crasched in the sand instead of the city.

Trying to shift the blame on a small team of volunteer firefighters... that's so classy.  Dumbass company.

[Liep]

Leaving the train running to keep the brakes energized doesn't make sense at all.  Air brakes on a train operate by negative pressure, when there is no air in the line the train is stopped.  It's a safety feature so that when the brake line is cut the train stops.

Yes, loss of pressure activates the brakes, but slow leakage does not activate the brakes which is why they can never be used as parking brakes.