DoJ to Snowden: Hope your 15 minutes were worth it, pal

[Zanza]

The role of the German government in this is really pathetic. Far from trying to actually protect our privacy, they prefer to not anger the American partner and probably secretly just get a copy of the data anyway. Spineless unprincipled fucks.

[DGuller]

There are no valid grounds for Snowden to seek asylum.

He does not have a well-founded fear of persecution based on any of the eligible categories.

Fear of being prosecuted for breaking the law is not a valid basis for asylum.

Surely it has to be more complicated than that.  Revealing wrongdoing by any government is almost assuredly going to break some law of the country doing the wrongdoing.

[Savonarola]

Some punditry from the WSJ:

Why Venezuela Offers Asylum to Snowden

President Nicólas Maduro sends a message of his loyalty to Iran.


By MARY ANASTASIA O'GRADY

Edward Snowden, the former U.S. government contractor wanted for leaking sensitive national intelligence, is a victim of "persecution" by "the world's most powerful empire," Venezuelan President Nicólas Maduro said on Friday.

Mr. Maduro offered asylum to the fugitive, who was running out of prospects. Nicaragua and Bolivia have chimed in with similar offers. What plans are afoot to spirit Mr. Snowden from his Moscow airport sanctuary—assuming he accepts refuge in Latin America—are of course secret.

Mr. Maduro would have us believe that his gesture is a demonstration of Venezuela's commitment to free speech and its fierce opposition to withholding information from the public. He also wants the world to know that he disapproves of secret government intelligence-gathering operations. Funny that.

Venezuela has expressed no such righteous indignation about information suppression by allies. Take Argentina, which has recently refused to allow its special prosecutor Alberto Nisman to travel to Washington and brief a U.S. congressional committee about intelligence collected on Iranian and Hezbollah terror cells in the Western Hemisphere. Mr. Nisman's 500-page report on the subject is public but in a July 1 letter to the U.S. Congress he said that by order of the Argentine attorney general he has been "denied the authorization to testify before the honorable parliament."

Mr. Maduro's lack of concern about Argentina's information suppression deserves attention.

His offer of refuge to Mr. Snowden is most easily explained as an attempt to distract Venezuelans from the increasingly difficult daily economic grind and get them to rally around the flag by putting a thumb in Uncle Sam's eye. Yet there is something else.

Venezuela has reason to fear increasing irrelevance as North America becomes more energy independent. This makes Iran crucial. Mr. Maduro may be trying to establish himself as a leader as committed to the anti-American cause as was his predecessor, Hugo Chávez, who had a strong personal bond with former Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. He also needs to establish his own place in South American politics.

Reaching out to Mr. Snowden is a way to send a message to the world that notwithstanding Secretary of State John Kerry's feeble attempt at rapprochement with Caracas last month, post-Chávez Venezuela has no intention of changing the course of the Bolivarian revolution. Rather, as the economy of the once-wealthy oil nation deteriorates, Mr. Maduro is signaling that Venezuela wants to become an even more loyal geopolitical ally and strategic partner of Russia and Iran.

Mr. Maduro's presidency is still viewed as illegitimate by roughly half of the Venezuelan electorate, who voted for challenger Henrique Capriles in April. The official rate of the currency known as the "strong bolívar" is 6.3 to the dollar. But a shortage of greenbacks has forced importers into the black market where the currency trades at somewhere between 31 and 37. There are price controls on just about everything, producing shortages of food and medicine. Even so, inflation is now hovering at around 35%, which means that some vendors are skirting government mandates.

In a free society with competitive elections, economic chaos generally prompts a government response designed to mitigate hardship. Venezuela needs liberalization. But that would threaten the profits of the military, which is largely running the country. When the nation ran out of toilet paper in the spring, it was the perfect metaphor for the failed state. But Mr. Maduro's foreign minister, Elias Jaua, responded by scolding Venezuelans for materialism, asking, "Do you want a fatherland or toilet paper?"

If the government is saying that it doesn't give a damn about the economic death spiral, this is because it believes it has the nation in a head lock. State control of information—by a president who has now become the world's foremost defender of Mr. Snowden—is almost complete. The last large independent cable television station was finally sold in April and the independent print media market is shrinking.

Another tool of repression, which Mr. Snowden supposedly abhors, is the ability to spy on citizens. Chávez had no compunction about recording the conversations of adversaries, and the practice continues under Mr. Maduro. Competing factions inside the government may even be getting into the act. Two recent high-profile cases—one involving a well-known government insider alleging crimes by members of the government in a conversation with the Cuban military, and another targeting an opposition politician—have increased the feeling among citizens that there is no such thing as a private conversation.

Yet even a government that locks down the press and spies on its own citizens without answering for it needs allies. No nation can survive in full isolation, especially when its economic power collapses.

Latin despots get this. Argentina is depositing goodwill in its account with Iran by blocking Alberto Nisman's trip to Washington. Venezuela, by offering refuge to Edward Snowden, is undoubtedly making a similar offering to the enemies of its enemies.

A battle cry for the ages if I've ever heard one.

I'm not quite sure I follow the logic in this column.  What does Iran have to offer Venezuela? 

[Razgovory]

The role of the German government in this is really pathetic. Far from trying to actually protect our privacy, they prefer to not anger the American partner and probably secretly just get a copy of the data anyway. Spineless unprincipled fucks.

How does giving Snowden asylum protect your privacy?

[crazy canuck]

There are no valid grounds for Snowden to seek asylum.

He does not have a well-founded fear of persecution based on any of the eligible categories.

Fear of being prosecuted for breaking the law is not a valid basis for asylum.

Surely it has to be more complicated than that.  Revealing wrongdoing by any government is almost assuredly going to break some law of the country doing the wrongdoing.

And if what he was revealing was some wrongdoing (you know something illegal) the government was doing then he might have a better case.

[Admiral Yi]

I'm not quite sure I follow the logic in this column.  What does Iran have to offer Venezuela?

One more world leader to pose on stage next to, bedecked in garlands. 

[Zanza]

The role of the German government in this is really pathetic. Far from trying to actually protect our privacy, they prefer to not anger the American partner and probably secretly just get a copy of the data anyway. Spineless unprincipled fucks.

How does giving Snowden asylum protect your privacy?

I was talking about the NSA spying in general, not Snowdon's fate in particular. Whistleblowers have a value to society, but it is not my role to determine if he was right to give away those secrets or not. I guess this is a good case where a jury of his peers should determine whether he is guilty of a crime or not. Maybe it would even be a good thing if this became a huge publicity trial where the court hopefully looks into his allegations of government wrongdoing as much as the governments allegation that he did wrong...

[Razgovory]

The role of the German government in this is really pathetic. Far from trying to actually protect our privacy, they prefer to not anger the American partner and probably secretly just get a copy of the data anyway. Spineless unprincipled fucks.

How does giving Snowden asylum protect your privacy?

I was talking about the NSA spying in general, not Snowdon's fate in particular. Whistleblowers have a value to society, but it is not my role to determine if he was right to give away those secrets or not. I guess this is a good case where a jury of his peers should determine whether he is guilty of a crime or not. Maybe it would even be a good thing if this became a huge publicity trial where the court hopefully looks into his allegations of government wrongdoing as much as the governments allegation that he did wrong...

A Jury of his peers would be a fine thing, and fitting with the concept of civil disobedience.  Sadly Snowden decided that wasn't for him.   What do you want the German government to do?

[KRonn]

I'm not quite sure I follow the logic in this column.  What does Iran have to offer Venezuela?   

I assume partly because of their push to power in the region, further their like cause, going against the US and the West. Plus being friendly with Iran and Russia will likely get them some cash and financial backing, which they need given the downward spiral of the Venezuelan economy.

[Savonarola]

I'm not quite sure I follow the logic in this column.  What does Iran have to offer Venezuela?   

I assume partly because of their push to power in the region, further their like cause, going against the US and the West. Plus being friendly with Iran and Russia will likely get them some cash and financial backing, which they need given the downward spiral of the Venezuelan economy.

Is Iran in good enough financial shape to offer support to Venezuela?

The author casually slips Russia into her article at one point seeming to make the point that Russia and Iran are linked.  Is this actually the case?  Is benefitting Iran enough to gain a nation the financial support of Russia?

[The Minsky Moment]

Surely it has to be more complicated than that.  Revealing wrongdoing by any government is almost assuredly going to break some law of the country doing the wrongdoing.

Being a whistleblower is not a ground for asylum.   A person can reveal wrongdoing by a government and yet do wrong himself, as Snowden himself has apparently done.

Asylum requires proof of a well-founded fear of persecution on account  of one's race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group, or political opinion.

[Barrister]

I'm not quite sure I follow the logic in this column.  What does Iran have to offer Venezuela?   

I assume partly because of their push to power in the region, further their like cause, going against the US and the West. Plus being friendly with Iran and Russia will likely get them some cash and financial backing, which they need given the downward spiral of the Venezuelan economy.

Is Iran in good enough financial shape to offer support to Venezuela?

The author casually slips Russia into her article at one point seeming to make the point that Russia and Iran are linked.  Is this actually the case?  Is benefitting Iran enough to gain a nation the financial support of Russia?

With declining oil prices, are any of those three countries in any shape to help anyone else out?

[Admiral Yi]

Is Iran in good enough financial shape to offer support to Venezuela?

The author casually slips Russia into her article at one point seeming to make the point that Russia and Iran are linked.  Is this actually the case?  Is benefitting Iran enough to gain a nation the financial support of Russia?

I think it has virtually nothing to do with tangible support and everything to do with creating a United Anti-Imperialist Front.  It's a natural outgrowth of their central organizing principle.

[Zanza]

A Jury of his peers would be a fine thing, and fitting with the concept of civil disobedience.  Sadly Snowden decided that wasn't for him.   What do you want the German government to do?

Making sure the Americans, French, British etc. don't spy on us wholesale anymore. And most of all, I want to make sure that our own intelligence agencies don't use similar technologies as Snowdon described to spy on us. That's obviously the biggest concern for me.

[Savonarola]

With declining oil prices, are any of those three countries in any shape to help anyone else out?

Russia will always have crime to fall back on. 

That's a good point, of the country's that have offered Snowden asylum, Bolivia and Venezuela have economies based on oil.  The socialist governments might not survive for long.  Would asylum be rescinded if a pro-US government were to emerge, or is that not done?