Exodus International Shuts Down

[Valmy]

There are however examples out there of identical twins where one is gay and one straight. Which is pretty much all the proof you need.

[The Brain]

Yeah wtf. They are hardly identical in that case.

[Admiral Yi]

A difficult fact for the 100% nature school is the slight increase in probability of being gay if one is the 2nd son.

[merithyn]

A difficult fact for the 100% nature school is the slight increase in probability of being gay if one is the 2nd son.

Actually, from what I've read, that falls under the "hormone" study. A mother's hormonal structure changes with each subsequent pregnancy, so each child she has will have different hormones than the one before.

By the way, I definitely fall under the "spectrum" way of thinking, in which case nurture is important, too. At that point, it boils down to how accepting the person's parents are to the individual's personal preferences, regardless of where they fall on the spectrum. A man who finds a very specific type of man attractive (say only very feminine ones or transvestites) may be more likely to consider himself bi-sexual if he doesn't risk alienation by his family, whereas the same man may not if he risks his family despising him for that choice.

[Maximus]

If I inject someone with hormones that's nature? OK.

Are you suggesting that you are unnatural?

[Admiral Yi]

Actually, from what I've read, that falls under the "hormone" study. A mother's hormonal structure changes with each subsequent pregnancy, so each child she has will have different hormones than the one before.

Then why is it only the second son?

[Maximus]

From what I have read the chance increases with each subsequent son.

Or probably rather with each subsequent child if it is male.

[Admiral Yi]

Definitely what I read was for 2nd male children only.

[MadImmortalMan]

More 2nd kids exist than 3rd kids. More 3rd than 4th. Etc. It's gonna decline after the 2nd simply due to numbers.

[merithyn]

Actually, from what I've read, that falls under the "hormone" study. A mother's hormonal structure changes with each subsequent pregnancy, so each child she has will have different hormones than the one before.

Then why is it only the second son?

Where did you hear this? I understood it to be each subsequent son.

[Admiral Yi]

More 2nd kids exist than 3rd kids. More 3rd than 4th. Etc. It's gonna decline after the 2nd simply due to numbers.

We're talking about probabilities/percentages, not absolute numbers.

Meri: Don't know.  It was a long time ago.

[merithyn]

More 2nd kids exist than 3rd kids. More 3rd than 4th. Etc. It's gonna decline after the 2nd simply due to numbers.

It's specific to boys, too, which really lessens the numbers.

So far as I know, there are very few studies on lesbians, so even less understanding on how they come to be.

[Valmy]

My second son is a giant.  He is wearing two year old clothes at 10 months and is basically the same size as his brother.  So..defintely a bear.

[merithyn]

We're talking about probabilities/percentages, not absolute numbers.

Meri: Don't know.  It was a long time ago.

It's an older study (about 10 years or so), but here:

http://classes.biology.ucsd.edu/bisp194-1.FA09/Blanchard_2001.pdf

In men, sexual orientation correlates with an individual's number of older brothers, each additional older brother increasing the odds of homosexuality by approximately 33%. It has been hypothesized that this fraternal birth order effect reflects the progressive immunization of some mothers to Y-linked minor histocompatibility antigens (H-Y antigens) by each succeeding male fetus and the concomitantly increasing effects of such maternal immunization on the future sexual orientation of each succeeding male fetus. According to this hypothesis, anti-H-Y antibodies produced by the mother pass through the placental barrier to the fetus and affect aspects of sexual differentiation in the fetal brain.

This explanation is consistent with a variety of evidence, including the apparent irrelevance of older sisters to the sexual orientation of later born males, the probable involvement of H-Y antigen in the development of sextypical traits, and the detrimental effects of immunization of female mice to H-Y antigen on the reproductive performance of subsequent male offspring. The maternal immune hypothesis might also explain the recent finding that heterosexual males with older brothers weigh less at birth than heterosexual males with older sisters and homosexual males with older brothers weigh even less than heterosexual males with older brothers.

[Admiral Yi]

 

I could have misremembered.