The Quebec Soccer Federation's Ban on Turbans

[crazy canuck]

You fail at understanding the real purpose of the Canadian variant of multiculturalism.  It was designed to undermine Quebec nationalism.  In other words to de precisely what you think it was meant to prevent: accelerate assimilation. 

It's the sinister: 'being nice and accomodating to destroy us' plot. 

Actually, you have a bit of a point: nothing is better for maintaining in-group identity than persecution by the majority, and nothing so corrosive to group identity as lack of persecution. Which is exactly why Quebec seperatists are so ready to claim they are being insulted and humiliated - and to treasure each and every such humiliation. 

Malthus, if Montreal was to declare itself unilingual french, refusing to communicate in english with its minority, how do you think the Canadians outside Quebec would react?

Probably the same why we react whenever Quebec's sign laws come up.

[Malthus]

You fail at understanding the real purpose of the Canadian variant of multiculturalism.  It was designed to undermine Quebec nationalism.  In other words to de precisely what you think it was meant to prevent: accelerate assimilation. 

It's the sinister: 'being nice and accomodating to destroy us' plot. 

Actually, you have a bit of a point: nothing is better for maintaining in-group identity than persecution by the majority, and nothing so corrosive to group identity as lack of persecution. Which is exactly why Quebec seperatists are so ready to claim they are being insulted and humiliated - and to treasure each and every such humiliation. 

Malthus, if Montreal was to declare itself unilingual french, refusing to communicate in english with its minority, how do you think the Canadians outside Quebec would react?

I'd be pretty surprised in Montreal was to say that.

Now, if Temiskaming was to say that, I'd think the town counsel was a bunch of idiots. Particularly if there was a large, English speaking minority living there.

The difference is, what some idiots do in Temiskaming isn't really reflective of Quebec as a whole. OTOH, Quebec's bizzare and intrusive language laws are.

I had a case not two weeks ago involving that. A client (can't say who) had a product recall in both Canada and the US - safety concerns. As part of the recall process, they put up recall notices in all of their stores (of the "if you bought this product, please di not use - it is dangerous - return for a full refund" variety). Naturally, their Canadian notices were bilingual - the exact same message in both English and French (and, this is important, the font was the same size in both versions).

So I get this agonized call from the client: they were issued some sort of citation in Quebec. Turns out it is against the Quebec language laws to have a "poster" that has font the same size in English and French. Never mind that this isn't an advertisement - it's a safety notice. They have to take the posters down or face a fine.

I pointed out that there was an express exception in the legislation for "public health and safety" posters. No dice. If they wanted to, they could take it to court, according to the authorities. French had to be "predominantly larger", or they would be charged.

So the posters came down, ones with French "predominantly larger" were printed and distributed - all of which, of course, took time. Meaning that actual citizens of Quebec, whose safety was at risk, were not getting the benefit of the posters that everyone else in North America was getting. 

[Jacob]

But at least there weren't pictures of people wearing turbans on those posters.

[viper37]

You fail at understanding the real purpose of the Canadian variant of multiculturalism.  It was designed to undermine Quebec nationalism.  In other words to de precisely what you think it was meant to prevent: accelerate assimilation. 

It's the sinister: 'being nice and accomodating to destroy us' plot. 

Actually, you have a bit of a point: nothing is better for maintaining in-group identity than persecution by the majority, and nothing so corrosive to group identity as lack of persecution. Which is exactly why Quebec seperatists are so ready to claim they are being insulted and humiliated - and to treasure each and every such humiliation. 

Malthus, if Montreal was to declare itself unilingual french, refusing to communicate in english with its minority, how do you think the Canadians outside Quebec would react?

Probably the same why we react whenever Quebec's sign laws come up.

Like this?
https://www.facebook.com/DOWNWITHPAULINEMAROIS

[viper37]

Now, if Temiskaming was to say that, I'd think the town counsel was a bunch of idiots. Particularly if there was a large, English speaking minority living there.

Who says it has to be large?  Anglos are a minority nearly everywhere.  Where they aren't, they don't want to mix with French (see the merger/unmerger/reformation of Montreal).

OTOH, Quebec's bizzare and intrusive language laws are.

No more intrusive than the rest of the bureaucracy.

I pointed out that there was an express exception in the legislation for "public health and safety" posters. No dice. If they wanted to, they could take it to court, according to the authorities. French had to be "predominantly larger", or they would be charged.

So the posters came down, ones with French "predominantly larger" were printed and distributed - all of which, of course, took time. Meaning that actual citizens of Quebec, whose safety was at risk, were not getting the benefit of the posters that everyone else in North America was getting.

I could spend an entire week telling you of my difficulties with my government, and it isn't about language issues.

Before these laws, Canadian corporations used english solely for all their commercial publications.  Including safety regulations.  And more importantly, the Sears catalogue, the only place where the youths could buy a Canadiens jersey resulting in many childhood traumas for kids forced to wear a Leafts jersey

As you said, such communications are exempt from the law, and I'm pretty sure there is jurisprudence on that.  It's not the first time a bureaucrat decides to rewrite the law.  They usually back down before it goes to trial, once they submit their case to the legal department.

[viper37]

But at least there weren't pictures of people wearing turbans on those posters.

Turban wearing posters are allowed.  Only soccer players - awaiting FIFA clarification, just like in BC - were disalowed

[crazy canuck]

But at least there weren't pictures of people wearing turbans on those posters.

Turban wearing posters are allowed.  Only soccer players - awaiting FIFA clarification, just like in BC - were disalowed

Since this matter had, as you pointed out, already been dealt with one wonders what the bright bulbs in Quebec were thinking.

[Jacob]

But at least there weren't pictures of people wearing turbans on those posters.

Turban wearing posters are allowed.  Only soccer players - awaiting FIFA clarification, just like in BC - were disalowed

Actually... if you read the post and link in the Canadian Politics thread, you'll see that the BC Association was the one that clarified the issue, without having to hear from FIFA.

In any case, since FIFA has clarified, shouldn't that settle the issue for you?

[Grallon]

It's the sinister: 'being nice and accomodating to destroy us' plot. 

...

Nothing sinister about it - merely the delusions of a politician with daddy issues (Trudeau) made into state policy (or state religion as said elsewhere) that latched on the smug complacency of a majority of Canadians.  That and, it must be stressed, the willful complicity of the federalists within Quebec itself. 

After the 1995 referendum defeat the Liberals soon took power, they increased the immigration quotas, they facilitated the diffusion of the multiculturalist dogmas within Quebec's educational system and, let us not forget, they systematized and greatly enlarged the collusion/corruption schemes they had going at all levels. 

Do you know for instance that Thomas Mulclair, who was at the time a provincial Liberal minister, became at odds with Jean Charest after he began investigating the Laval City management?  He was told then, by Charest himself, that he could not antagonize the mayor of Laval because the man was such a reliable source of financing for the Quebec Liberal Party?  And do you know that all these people were also rubbing elbows with the same people behind the Sponsorship scandal?  IN fact, in many cases they were the same...

No Malthus, there was no plot... merely... an alignment of interests all leaning in the same direction.




G.

[Razgovory]

I never would have thought that Canadian politics is so toxic.

[viper37]

In any case, since FIFA has clarified, shouldn't that settle the issue for you?

Does it for you guys?

[crazy canuck]

I never would have thought that Canadian politics is so toxic.

How long have you been reading the threads on this forum?

[viper37]

Do you know for instance that Thomas Mulclair, who was at the time a provincial Liberal minister, became at odds with Jean Charest after he began investigating the Laval City management?  He was told then, by Charest himself, that he could not antagonize the mayor of Laval because the man was such a reliable source of financing for the Quebec Liberal Party?  And do you know that all these people were also rubbing elbows with the same people behind the Sponsorship scandal?  IN fact, in many cases they were the same...

If you're going to bring that into discussion, we should discuss Serge Ménard.  He was Minister of Justice for the PQ under Parizeau.  Vaillancourt attempted to bribe him.  Yet, he did nothing while in power... 

He was Minister of Justice.  He could have ordered an inquiry board.  He could have ordered the SQ to investigate, citing what he saw as testimony to the effect there was something wrong with Laval. 

Did he do it?  Nope.  He stayed silent.  But why? 

Could it because the PQ also had a lot to lose by going against Vaillancourt at the time? 
Could it be that because Parizeau had a referendum on his agenda he had no time to govern the province? 
Could it be that Parizeau wanted nothing to distract public attention from the sovereignty issue?
Could it be that Parizeau was so desperate for help in winning his referendum, he shut his eyes on everything else?

Just look at the PQ now, promoting vandalism and bullying as free speech.  Doing nothing to investigate the FTQ... They need their help, they certainly won't help the evil entrepreneurs that are bullied by their friends.  Hey, they'll even help them fight the Federal who wants to put an end to their misuse of public funds.  Oh, the horror...

[viper37]

I never would have thought that Canadian politics is so toxic.

How long have you been reading the threads on this forum?

Some kind of short-terme amnesia, maybe.

[Jacob]

Does it for you guys?

Yeah, it's totally settled as far as I'm concerned. The only thing that keeps it going is you and grallon going on about how English Canada is prejudiced against Quebec, and how a vigorous defence was needed against the people calling the action wrong.

But yeah... if you want to take a line of "yeah, it was a silly mistake but it got corrected quickly; all is it should be" then I'm happy to subscribe to that. What's giving the story more life is inserting it into a larger national political debate and insisting that the call wasn't a mistake to begin with.