[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[crazy canuck]

I think the Greens are somewhat undefined in terms of right vs left. They're a bit all over the map.

I think that is fair

[viper37]

@ Viper, pay a bit more attention to the part where he says the intention is to make the Greens a Zionist party....

That's not indicative of much.  It's a twitter line by one advisor.  After presumably receiving racist comments.

[Malthus]

Zionism is a racist, colonial, ideology (according to the Jewish Left). With that tweet, Zatzman dug Paul's grave.

To be fair, he says he will bring in people who are, among other things, Zionists. Making the Greens a Zionist party is rather different.

Presumably, his intentions are to balance out those who think that Zionism is a "racist, colonialist ideology". The progressive position on this is difficult to sustain. Zionism is simply Jewish ethno-nationalism. Presumably, any form of ethnic nationalism is "racist" by definition, so that much is supportable, though that's a dangerous line to take in Canada, which has all sorts of local issues with various types of ethnic-based nationalism.

In no sense can Zionism be "colonialism" because Israel is not a colony of another metropolitan power. What it is, is engaged in aggressive expansion against its Palestinian neighbour, wrongly using its power against its weak neighbour to rip off bits of its land. That's on Israel the country though, not on Zionism the concept (it is perfectly possible to be a Zionist yet disagree on the specific policies of the Israeli government).

Though what the Greens have to do with Zionism either way is pretty questionable. Ideally, nothing whatsoever. It has nothing to do with the environment.

[viper37]

Unlike what Viper is trying to sell us the Greens are right wing.

Quebec greens were briefly right wing.  they were then isolated by other leftist group.
the federal greens may have been slightly right wing in their beginnings, but that was long gone by the time they had their first mp elected.

You can see the party tearing itself apart this summer because Paul said both sides needed to make peace. Hardly indicative of rational minded people.

For worst, the environment has become a leftist cause, and we're worst for it, since we're doing nothing.

[viper37]

Zionism is a racist, colonial, ideology (according to the Jewish Left). With that tweet, Zatzman dug Paul's grave.

To be fair, he says he will bring in people who are, among other things, Zionists. Making the Greens a Zionist party is rather different.

Presumably, his intentions are to balance out those who think that Zionism is a "racist, colonialist ideology". The progressive position on this is difficult to sustain. Zionism is simply Jewish ethno-nationalism. Presumably, any form of ethnic nationalism is "racist" by definition, so that much is supportable, though that's a dangerous line to take in Canada, which has all sorts of local issues with various types of ethnic-based nationalism.

In no sense can Zionism be "colonialism" because Israel is not a colony of another metropolitan power. What it is, is engaged in aggressive expansion against its Palestinian neighbour, wrongly using its power against its weak neighbour to rip off bits of its land. That's on Israel the country though, not on Zionism the concept (it is perfectly possible to be a Zionist yet disagree on the specific policies of the Israeli government).

Though what the Greens have to do with Zionism either way is pretty questionable. Ideally, nothing whatsoever. It has nothing to do with the environment.

Israel can be seen as a colonial power, as it is displacing natives to put its own people in place.

As for the racism part, Israel is seen as an occidental country, even worst, most Jews look "white", so there you go.  It's ok for Africans to slaughter themselves with machetes, it's ok for Arabs to slaughter Christians and those who may not be arab enough in their eyes, but it's certainly racist when there's lighter skin vs darker skin involved.

[Malthus]

Zionism is a racist, colonial, ideology (according to the Jewish Left). With that tweet, Zatzman dug Paul's grave.

To be fair, he says he will bring in people who are, among other things, Zionists. Making the Greens a Zionist party is rather different.

Presumably, his intentions are to balance out those who think that Zionism is a "racist, colonialist ideology". The progressive position on this is difficult to sustain. Zionism is simply Jewish ethno-nationalism. Presumably, any form of ethnic nationalism is "racist" by definition, so that much is supportable, though that's a dangerous line to take in Canada, which has all sorts of local issues with various types of ethnic-based nationalism.

In no sense can Zionism be "colonialism" because Israel is not a colony of another metropolitan power. What it is, is engaged in aggressive expansion against its Palestinian neighbour, wrongly using its power against its weak neighbour to rip off bits of its land. That's on Israel the country though, not on Zionism the concept (it is perfectly possible to be a Zionist yet disagree on the specific policies of the Israeli government).

Though what the Greens have to do with Zionism either way is pretty questionable. Ideally, nothing whatsoever. It has nothing to do with the environment.

Israel can be seen as a colonial power, as it is displacing natives to put its own people in place.

As for the racism part, Israel is seen as an occidental country, even worst, most Jews look "white", so there you go.  It's ok for Africans to slaughter themselves with machetes, it's ok for Arabs to slaughter Christians and those who may not be arab enough in their eyes, but it's certainly racist when there's lighter skin vs darker skin involved.

There are problems with this view, though - even if this was the correct take, literally half of the Jewish population of Israel is just as much "non-white" as the Palestinians. These are the so-called "Mizrai" or middle eastern Jews, who used to live in various middle eastern nations before they got booted out. They look exactly like Arabs.

Moreover, there are thousands of so called "Bene Israel" Jews in Israel (also sometimes known as "Falashas", though this is considered insulting). These are Jews from Ethiopia, who are Black skinned; one of them was "Miss Israel" a couple of years back:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yityish_Titi_Aynaw

So it simply isn't correct on the facts to see this as a "white vs. Brown" issue.

[crazy canuck]

Zionism is a racist, colonial, ideology (according to the Jewish Left). With that tweet, Zatzman dug Paul's grave.

To be fair, he says he will bring in people who are, among other things, Zionists. Making the Greens a Zionist party is rather different.

Presumably, his intentions are to balance out those who think that Zionism is a "racist, colonialist ideology". The progressive position on this is difficult to sustain. Zionism is simply Jewish ethno-nationalism. Presumably, any form of ethnic nationalism is "racist" by definition, so that much is supportable, though that's a dangerous line to take in Canada, which has all sorts of local issues with various types of ethnic-based nationalism.

In no sense can Zionism be "colonialism" because Israel is not a colony of another metropolitan power. What it is, is engaged in aggressive expansion against its Palestinian neighbour, wrongly using its power against its weak neighbour to rip off bits of its land. That's on Israel the country though, not on Zionism the concept (it is perfectly possible to be a Zionist yet disagree on the specific policies of the Israeli government).

Though what the Greens have to do with Zionism either way is pretty questionable. Ideally, nothing whatsoever. It has nothing to do with the environment.

A valiant attempt to soften what he said, but the "we will defeat you" by "bringing in" zionists to the party is actually what he did say.

Israel is not a colony, no.  But I don't understand anyone to be making that claim, rather the claim is that Israel has colonized the areas that were Palestinian. 

The Greens are a federal party and so presumably need to have a foreign policy platform.  It is a shame that the current leader picked such a loose cannon as her advisor.

[Malthus]

Zionism is a racist, colonial, ideology (according to the Jewish Left). With that tweet, Zatzman dug Paul's grave.

To be fair, he says he will bring in people who are, among other things, Zionists. Making the Greens a Zionist party is rather different.

Presumably, his intentions are to balance out those who think that Zionism is a "racist, colonialist ideology". The progressive position on this is difficult to sustain. Zionism is simply Jewish ethno-nationalism. Presumably, any form of ethnic nationalism is "racist" by definition, so that much is supportable, though that's a dangerous line to take in Canada, which has all sorts of local issues with various types of ethnic-based nationalism.

In no sense can Zionism be "colonialism" because Israel is not a colony of another metropolitan power. What it is, is engaged in aggressive expansion against its Palestinian neighbour, wrongly using its power against its weak neighbour to rip off bits of its land. That's on Israel the country though, not on Zionism the concept (it is perfectly possible to be a Zionist yet disagree on the specific policies of the Israeli government).

Though what the Greens have to do with Zionism either way is pretty questionable. Ideally, nothing whatsoever. It has nothing to do with the environment.

A valiant attempt to soften what he said, but the "we will defeat you" by "bringing in" zionists to the party is actually what he did say.

Israel is not a colony, no.  But I don't understand anyone to be making that claim, rather the claim is that Israel has colonized the areas that were Palestinian. 

The Greens are a federal party and so presumably need to have a foreign policy platform.  It is a shame that the current leader picked such a loose cannon as her advisor.

Yes - defeat the persons this advisor claims are anti-Semitic. How you get from that to making the party into a Zionist party I don't follow.

They are making the claim that **Zionism** is colonialist. That had nothing to do with the current actions of Israel the nation, but rather with the concept of Zionism - that is, Jewish ethno-nationalism. It is perfectly possible to be "Zionist" but to disapprove of the actions of the current or former Israeli government. The question to ask is whether, if the current state of Israel gave back the bits of the WB it has taken, would these folks consider that Zionism was now **not** "colonialist".

[crazy canuck]

Yes - defeat the persons this advisor claims are anti-Semitic. How you get from that to making the party into a Zionist party I don't follow.

I am not sure how you can read that line and not come to the conclusion the way the advisor said the people the advisor labelled as anti-Semitic was to bring in Zionists.  If one intends to bring Zionists into the party and I am certain the conclusion that the advisor wanted the party to become pro Zionist is so far fetched.

[viper37]

Zionism is a racist, colonial, ideology (according to the Jewish Left). With that tweet, Zatzman dug Paul's grave.

To be fair, he says he will bring in people who are, among other things, Zionists. Making the Greens a Zionist party is rather different.

Presumably, his intentions are to balance out those who think that Zionism is a "racist, colonialist ideology". The progressive position on this is difficult to sustain. Zionism is simply Jewish ethno-nationalism. Presumably, any form of ethnic nationalism is "racist" by definition, so that much is supportable, though that's a dangerous line to take in Canada, which has all sorts of local issues with various types of ethnic-based nationalism.

In no sense can Zionism be "colonialism" because Israel is not a colony of another metropolitan power. What it is, is engaged in aggressive expansion against its Palestinian neighbour, wrongly using its power against its weak neighbour to rip off bits of its land. That's on Israel the country though, not on Zionism the concept (it is perfectly possible to be a Zionist yet disagree on the specific policies of the Israeli government).

Though what the Greens have to do with Zionism either way is pretty questionable. Ideally, nothing whatsoever. It has nothing to do with the environment.

Israel can be seen as a colonial power, as it is displacing natives to put its own people in place.

As for the racism part, Israel is seen as an occidental country, even worst, most Jews look "white", so there you go.  It's ok for Africans to slaughter themselves with machetes, it's ok for Arabs to slaughter Christians and those who may not be arab enough in their eyes, but it's certainly racist when there's lighter skin vs darker skin involved.

There are problems with this view, though - even if this was the correct take, literally half of the Jewish population of Israel is just as much "non-white" as the Palestinians. These are the so-called "Mizrai" or middle eastern Jews, who used to live in various middle eastern nations before they got booted out. They look exactly like Arabs.

Moreover, there are thousands of so called "Bene Israel" Jews in Israel (also sometimes known as "Falashas", though this is considered insulting). These are Jews from Ethiopia, who are Black skinned; one of them was "Miss Israel" a couple of years back:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yityish_Titi_Aynaw

So it simply isn't correct on the facts to see this as a "white vs. Brown" issue.

I know all that.  But it does not matter to the anti-Israel type.  Israel = America = White Men controlling the world.
I'm not sure I have the stomach to engage in a philosiphical discussion over the left's twisted worldview. Might as well discuss the appeal of neo-nazism in modern society

[Malthus]

Yes - defeat the persons this advisor claims are anti-Semitic. How you get from that to making the party into a Zionist party I don't follow.

I am not sure how you can read that line and not come to the conclusion the way the advisor said the people the advisor labelled as anti-Semitic was to bring in Zionists.  If one intends to bring Zionists into the party and I am certain the conclusion that the advisor wanted the party to become pro Zionist is so far fetched.

It's an entirely different motivation.

To make the party Zionist means to work to making the platform of the party to be pro-Zionist, I would have thought.

His email expressly states his motive is to combat what he perceives as anti-semitism within the party by bringing in Green Zionists.

No doubt he, being a Zionist himself, would not mind making the party pro-Zionist. But that's not his motivation here. Also, one may well question why bringing in zionists is the way to combat anti-Semitism (bringing in more Jews would seem more rational), but that's the way some ideologues think.

[crazy canuck]

I, and more importantly people within the Green party, read it differently than you.  Why bring Zionists into the party if you do not want the party to be pro Zionist?

The problem is he equated being sympathetic to the plight of those in Gaza with being anti-Semitic and his solution was to "defeat" those people by bringing in people to the party who would support zionism.

You can split hairs about whether that makes the party a zionist party.  His meaning was pretty clear.

[viper37]

I, and more importantly people within the Green party, read it differently than you.  Why bring Zionists into the party if you do not want the party to be pro Zionist?

The problem is he equated being sympathetic to the plight of those in Gaza with being anti-Semitic and his solution was to "defeat" those people by bringing in people to the party who would support zionism.

You can split hairs about whether that makes the party a zionist party.  His meaning was pretty clear.

the party split when their leader asked both sides to make peace.  Not when her advisor posted some silly comment on twitter.  That's just icing on the cake for the leftist radicals who infest this party.

[viper37]

Meng Whanzou has been freed, the US dropped its extradition request against her.

Fate of 2 Michaels unknown, but officially, they are still in jail.

[ulmont]

Meng Whanzou has been freed, the US dropped its extradition request against her.

Fate of 2 Michaels unknown, but officially, they are still in jail.

Nah, a deal's a deal.


"China frees 2 jailed Canadians after U.S. agrees to release Huawei executive."
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/24/world/canada/trudeau-china-huawei-meng-wanzhou.html