Quo Vadis GOP?

[DGuller]

"Woke" is not being used by the right as a convenient referent to a defined group of people to make having meaningful discussions for more tractable. It's exactly the opposite: it's being used as a lazy pejorative label to avoid having a substantive discussion through name calling.  And it's another way to lump together vast swaths of people, from traditional liberals to Hamas-cheering campus radicals, from corporatist centrists like Hakeem Jeffries to left activists like Cornel West.

It's just like Trump and his ilk babbling about the RADical Left. It's a way to shut down all discussion and avoid actual thought, not promote it.

"Woke" is not only used by the right.  Yes, you can pretend that those not on the right who use the word were brainwashed by the right propaganda, but that mindless dismissive attitude is not going to promote discussion and actual thought either.

[grumbler]

No, they don't want their beliefs said out loud by anyone, including themselves.  Expressing beliefs verbally can be very damaging to cognitive dissonance.

Yes, I can see from your posts that this is true.  Do you think that your strawman construction of "woke" increases or decreases your cognitive dissonance?

[crazy canuck]

"Woke" is not being used by the right as a convenient referent to a defined group of people to make having meaningful discussions for more tractable. It's exactly the opposite: it's being used as a lazy pejorative label to avoid having a substantive discussion through name calling.  And it's another way to lump together vast swaths of people, from traditional liberals to Hamas-cheering campus radicals, from corporatist centrists like Hakeem Jeffries to left activists like Cornel West.

It's just like Trump and his ilk babbling about the RADical Left. It's a way to shut down all discussion and avoid actual thought, not promote it.

"Woke" is not only used by the right.  Yes, you can pretend that those not on the right who use the word were brainwashed by the right propaganda, but that mindless dismissive attitude is not going to promote discussion and actual thought either.

And you can pretend that the people, like you, who use woke as a slur are not on the right.

[frunk]

To be fair most of us are at an age such that in a normal time we'd be more comfortable with being considered on the right.  Except the right in the US and many other places have gone nuts.  So even though we might think of ourselves as being "on the left" in any sane environment we'd be on the other side of the spectrum.

[Valmy]

To be fair most of us are at an age such that in a normal time we'd be more comfortable with being considered on the right.  Except the right in the US and many other places have gone nuts.  So even though we might think of ourselves as being "on the left" in any sane environment we'd be on the other side of the spectrum.

Maybe. I just think the economic results of the past several decades speak for themselves. We need a more equitable distribution of wealth...not an equal distribution of wealth but it gets ridiculous when certain individuals supposedly are worth more than the entire GDP of South Africa. I want a return to the New Deal/Great Society way of doing things, at least its mentality. Where we actually made serious attempts to fix social ills. That seems pretty radically leftist these days.

[crazy canuck]

To be fair most of us are at an age such that in a normal time we'd be more comfortable with being considered on the right.  Except the right in the US and many other places have gone nuts.  So even though we might think of ourselves as being "on the left" in any sane environment we'd be on the other side of the spectrum.

Maybe. I just think the economic results of the past several decades speak for themselves. We need a more equitable distribution of wealth...not an equal distribution of wealth but it gets ridiculous when certain individuals supposedly are worth more than the entire GDP of South Africa. I want a return to the New Deal/Great Society way of doing things, at least its mentality. Where we actually made serious attempts to fix social ills. That seems pretty radically leftist these days.

Yes, I agree that is the point.  It's not just that the right in the US has shifted so dramatically right, it is that the centre right politics of old are also inadequate and I am coming to the realization that they always were, we just didn't see it at the time.

edit: and by we I mean those of us who once identified as centre right

[The Minsky Moment]

"Woke" is not only used by the right.  Yes, you can pretend that those not on the right who use the word were brainwashed by the right propaganda, but that mindless dismissive attitude is not going to promote discussion and actual thought either.

?
I am NOT saying those not on the right who use the word were "brainwashed by the right propaganda".  I am saying those on the right who use the word are trying to spread propaganda.

[DGuller]

"Woke" is not only used by the right.  Yes, you can pretend that those not on the right who use the word were brainwashed by the right propaganda, but that mindless dismissive attitude is not going to promote discussion and actual thought either.

?
I am NOT saying those not on the right who use the word were "brainwashed by the right propaganda".  I am saying those on the right who use the word are trying to spread propaganda.

Some are, probably majority.  However, some on the right are probably having the same problem with the woke left that the non-woke left do.  Just because you're associated with the crazy extremists on the right doesn't mean that you lose the ability to accurately perceive the shortcomings of extremists on the left.

[Zoupa]

Jimmy Kimmel show cancelled by ABC, because of this:

During his Monday evening monologue, Kimmel suggested Kirk's alleged killer, Tyler Robinson, might have been a pro-Trump Republican. "The MAGA Gang (is) desperately trying to characterize this kid who murdered Charlie Kirk as anything other than one of them and doing everything they can to score political points from it," Kimmel said. "In between the finger-pointing, there was grieving."

Good luck yanks  You're really speed-running towards that wall. Yikes.

[Jacob]

They have agency. The definition of terms is a political struggle. It's just that the left has form for losing, these last few decades - in this political struggle as in many others.

I have to give you credit, you have been saying this for a while now. But it is just recently that I realize the truth of it.