Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-23 and Invasion

[Syt]

Yep, was a big thing in chat rooms and on ICQ when I got the internet in '98.

At least so I've been told.

[Razgovory]

I always felt there was something missing in cybersex.

[Tamas]

It was reported on Saturday meanwhile that political advisers from Russia, Ukraine, France and Germany will hold "Normandy format" talks on eastern Ukraine in Paris on 25 January. Reuters attributed the development to a source in Putin's administration.

I guess Russia is looking to put out half informal feelers on what it would take to make the EU stand on the sidelines.

[Tamas]

Also according to the Financial Times, the US is handholding Europe, negotiating with Qatar and other LNG suppliers about how they can manage to keep Europe supplied with gas if the Russians decide to close the taps.

[mongers]

I always felt there was something missing in cybeersex.

Would that have been better?

[Sheilbh]

German naval chief has stepped down after some truly bizarre comments at an event in Delhis.

Including:

In the video, Schoenbach, speaking in English, says Putin seeks to be treated at eye level by the West.

"What he (Putin) really wants is respect," Schoenbach says.

"And my God, giving someone respect is low cost, even no cost... It is easy to give him the respect he really demands - and probably also deserves," Schoenbach said, calling Russia an old and important country.

Schoenbach concedes Russia's actions in Ukraine needed to be addressed, but adds that "the Crimea peninsula is gone, it will never come back, this is a fact", thereby contradicting the joint Western position that Moscow's annexation of the peninsula from Ukraine in 2014 cannot be accepted and must be reversed.

There were also some really weird comments about rivalry with China, and Europe needs Russia against China. He also had some stuff about how he's a Roman Catholic and Russia's a Christian country. I think, again, this links to the talk about Europe taking a civilisational turn.

But the thing I'm left wondering is how widespread these types of views are in Germany's military/security establishment if this guy is that senior and feels comfortable saying this stuff out loud. Because it sounds like the something from that GOP Congressman Putin's bought and not what I'd associate with Germany at all

[HVC]

Russia's money was well spent in Germany.

[The Brain]

How strong is the Berlin-Moscow axis? Will Germany fight against NATO?

[Crazy_Ivan80]

not what I'd associate with Germany at all

what, Germany being on the wrong side?

[Tamas]

To be fair there were plenty of people in the West impressed by how Hitler made the trains run on time back in the day. When you are an authoritarian prick a system like Putin's must look quite attractive.

[Zanza]

How strong is the Berlin-Moscow axis? Will Germany fight against NATO?

Of course not. We will send sternly worded letters to everybody and otherwise just carry on with business as usual.

[Zanza]

Never heard about that Admiral before. Seems to be an idiot. No idea if his views are representative for the security establishment. While there are Putin sympathizers in Germany, they seem to be found across the political spectrum, not concentrated in any particular party or any particular societal group.

[Gaijin de Moscu]

How strong is the Berlin-Moscow axis?

It's actually an interesting question. There's a school of thought, at least in my country, that there's a strong behind-the-scenes partnership between Russia and Germany. Some examples given include:

- Putin served in Germany and has openly expressed his sympathies many times. He speaks the language. My father, for example, was convinced that Putin works "for" Germany.

- Despite all the right words said about the dictatorial nature of the molecules of the Russian gas, both Nord Stream 1 and Nord Stream 2 were built to link the two countries directly, going around all possible intermediaries.

- Herr Schroeder led (still does?) RosNeft, Matthias Warnig has been very active in major Russian state businesses, and so on. Deutche Welle investigated the activities of major German ex-politicians and business heads in Russia back in 2017 (I can provide a link, don't know how to avoid it taking half a page).

- Back in 2015, Germany was very active (along with France) in settling the Minsk agreements, and Putin clearly trusted them. Even back in 2014, Putin reportedly put pressure on Yanukovich to sign Germany-brokered truce with the protesters, again trusting the German mediation.

- Just now, Germany refused to supply Ukraine with lethal weapons, and reportedly forbid Baltic governments to sell German-made weapons to Ukraine. I also read that it didn't open its air space to the British military planes delivering troops and weapons to Ukraine, so the Brits had to fly around Germany.

And so on.

Some conspiracy-minded folks would go as far as to suggest that this apparent proximity between the two countries bothers the US and the UK, who have been active in all the countries between DE and RU (Baltics, Poland, Ukraine)... which is why some Baltics have been making bizarre political moves which annoyed Germany and other Europeans. I read lately that the UK wants to create a direct alliance with Poland and Ukraine, could be just a rumour.

Like I said — it's a school of thought which exists in Russia. I don't subscribe to it, but your question reminded me of it

[Malthus]

To be fair there were plenty of people in the West impressed by how Hitler made the trains run on time back in the day. When you are an authoritarian prick a system like Putin's must look quite attractive.

There is also this: Putin's Russia has set itself up as the bastion of "traditional values", painting the West as a bunch of decadents in decline - for some reason the whole gay thing in particular is a bugbear of theirs.

Lots of Europeans agree, and this makes Russia attractive to them.

[DGuller]

To be fair there were plenty of people in the West impressed by how Hitler made the trains run on time back in the day. When you are an authoritarian prick a system like Putin's must look quite attractive.

There is also this: Putin's Russia has set itself up as the bastion of "traditional values", painting the West as a bunch of decadents in decline - for some reason the whole gay thing in particular is a bugbear of theirs.

Lots of Europeans agree, and this makes Russia attractive to them.

Homosexuality in USSR has always been a sign of "decomposition of morals", and was regarded as a behavior that could be spread to others if not contained.  It was even a serious crime throughout its history.  Putin Russia's hang-up about gays is nothing unique, it goes back to USSR.