'Seeking Asian Female' Takes A Close Look At A Fetish

[Malthus]

It's hard to watch Seeking Asian Female, Debbie Lum's uncomfortably close look at the phenomenon some call "yellow fever" — when usually non-Asian men fetishize Asian women as romantic or sexual partners — without squirming. And at first, it seems like it wasn't so easy for Lum to document the phenomenon.

Somebody want to explain the difference between being attracted to and fetishizing?  And I am sort of taken aback that having a certain type you are attracted to is twisted somehow.

This is not the first time I have heard outrage over this before, as if non-asian men wanting to sleep with asian women is equivalent to the most vile racism, and I just do not get the horribleness of this.  How exactly is this any more creepy than Cal liking big boobs?

This narrative still doesn't sit well with me. The way Steven thought about Asian women — stripping them of ther individuality, layering on pre-conceived ideals, replacing people with types — was challenged when he met Sandy, a real person with layers of her own.

So...like every other relationship in the history of the universe?  He had fantasies about his perfect mate but discovered a real person when he started dating?  Um...yeah so?

There is a spectrum - from having a preference on the one hand (which everyone does, if not with 'racial characteristics', then with something equally appearance-based) and fetishizing on the other. The difference between the two is that the fetishist assigns all sorts of significance to their appearance-based preference that exists only in their minds, and the fetish gets in the way of appreciating (or in some cases even seeing) the non-appearance-based characteristics of the other person - who is, in the fetishists' mind at the extreme end of the spectrum, less of a subject in her or his own right, than an object to be desired or not based on whether they live up to the fantasy image the fetishist has constructed about them.

In short, someone having a preference is attracted to someone initially because of their preference, and then falls in love with that person (or not). The true fetishist is attracted to the fetish and will not, or cannot, see the person embodying that fetish as a person.

The stronger the stated preference, the more the suspicion that the person stating the preference falls towards the "fetishist" end of the spectrum. Which is of course all very well if all the parties are interested in are sex games, but bad news if they want some sort of relationship.

[Josquius]

I've seen this documentary.
The guy is indeed a creep, but the film maker is just some Chinese-American girl with a bit of a victim complex.

[Valmy]

The difference between the two is that the fetishist assigns all sorts of significance to their appearance-based preference that exists only in their minds, and the fetish gets in the way of appreciating (or in some cases even seeing) the non-appearance-based characteristics of the other person - who is, in the fetishists' mind at the extreme end of the spectrum, less of a subject in her or his own right, than an object to be desired or not based on whether they live up to the fantasy image the fetishist has constructed about them.

Well then they picked a bad subject for this film since he also thinks Asian women have lots of desireably non-appearance characteristics he likes.  I do not know if your definition and the one used by the documentary maker are the same.  And um most people construct a fantasy mate and start out seeing their quest for a mate as desiring an 'object'.  If it was about treasuring everybody for being a nice little snowflake people would base their preferences on who most needs their love and affection versus who fulfills their needs the most.  So I am not sure how this sort of 'objectifying' is different than anybody else.

In short, someone having a preference is attracted to someone initially because of their preference, and then falls in love with that person (or not). The true fetishist is attracted to the fetish and will not, or cannot, see the person embodying that fetish as a person.

Well I have never heard the term 'yellow fever' applied this way before.  Generally it was just guys who preferred to date Asian girls.  This sounds like a tiny minority of sociopaths who are incapable of functioning in society anyway.

[CountDeMoney]

What about Jungle Fever?  Eskimo Fever?  I've Got the Fever For The Flavor of a Persian?

[Malthus]

In short, someone having a preference is attracted to someone initially because of their preference, and then falls in love with that person (or not). The true fetishist is attracted to the fetish and will not, or cannot, see the person embodying that fetish as a person.

Well I have never heard the term 'yellow fever' applied this way before.  Generally it was just guys who preferred to date Asian girls.  This sounds like a tiny minority of sociopaths.

Well ... it's associated with the whole "Asians are demure and submissive" stereotype. And with the importation of Asian mail-order brides. Obviously, again, it is a spectrum, so what I'm describing is one of the extreme end-points, which very few will wholeheartedly resemble.

One suspects that some of these fellows are gonna be dissapointed on the whole "demure and submissive" thing. 

But you have asked what is creepy about it - and it is this: the concern that someone expressing "yellow fever" is some sort of Lettowish fetishist, rather than simply expressing a preference like "I like redheads".

[CountDeMoney]

One suspects that some of these fellows are gonna be dissapointed on the whole "demure and submissive" thing. 

Ain't that the fucking truth.

[Malthus]

Well then they picked a bad subject for this film since he also thinks Asian women have lots of desireably non-appearance characteristics he likes.  I do not know if your definition and the one used by the documentary maker are the same.  And um most people construct a fantasy mate and start out seeing their quest for a mate as desiring an 'object'.  If it was about treasuring everybody for being a nice little snowflake people would base their preferences on who most needs their love and affection versus who fulfills their needs the most.  So I am not sure how this sort of 'objectifying' is different than anybody else.

You added this part ... but yeah from the written discription the whole point of the documentary appears to be that the film-maker thought the guy was a hardcore fetishist but he turned out not to be, as their relationship became just another relationship.

Yes, of course everyone starts out with an image of what they want which is very superficial. The difference (and what makes a fetishist creepy) is that your truly hardcore fetishist doesn't move beyond that.

The issue is that, rightly or wrongly, fairly or not, those expressing "yellow fever" are more likely to be seen as anti-social type fetishists than (say) those expressing an interest in "natural redheads". You can blame Lettow, the anime-loving brigade, and creeps who live in trailers and order mail-order brides for that perception. 

[Valmy]

Well ... it's associated with the whole "Asians are demure and submissive" stereotype. And with the importation of Asian mail-order brides. Obviously, again, it is a spectrum, so what I'm describing is one of the extreme end-points, which very few will wholeheartedly resemble.

Well if you have a preference for a traditional gender roles relationship going to a more conservative culture makes good sense.  My preference was for the other thing, I wanted a woman who could get shit done, and I selected for that.  What makes them worse than me?  We both were clear on what we wanted.

One suspects that some of these fellows are gonna be dissapointed on the whole "demure and submissive" thing.

Yeah those guys think that about Russians (and various other former Soviet-flavors) women as well, which sounded like a bad risk to me knowing a bit about Russia.

But you have asked what is creepy about it - and it is this: the concern that someone expressing "yellow fever" is some sort of Lettowish fetishist, rather than simply expressing a preference like "I like redheads".

I am sure there are plenty of creepy guys with a preference for redheads.  But the way I hear the 'fetishize Asian women' thing is that this is a common thing that is a symptom of vile western racism rather than just a few sociopathic creeps being creepy.

[Valmy]

You can blame Lettow, the anime-loving brigade, and creeps who live in trailers and order mail-order brides for that perception. 

Well fair enough.  There is alot I can blame those guys on

[Barrister]

All things being equal, I have a preference for white girls.  But for some reason when you're also white no one calls that a fetish. 

[CountDeMoney]

Ide has Auschwitz Fever.

[Valmy]

All things being equal, I have a preference for white girls.  But for some reason when you're also white no one calls that a fetish. 

No.  Now you are just objectifying.

You monster. 

[Valmy]

Ide has Auschwitz Fever.

[CountDeMoney]

No, no, no...keep the striped pajamas on, baby.

[lustindarkness]