2016 elections - because it's never too early

[CountDeMoney]

Disenfranchisement works much better when you can eliminate the votes by purging the rolls before the election.

Every single moment in time is before the election.  After the election is before the next election.

I'd recommend some light reading from the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights on the Florida voter purges of 2000, but you would just roll it up and smoke it.

[Admiral Yi]

Meaning you're not recommending it?

[CountDeMoney]

Sorry, couldn't hear you over your triple-chamber positive pressure water bong.

[OttoVonBismarck]

I dislike Jackson's policies, but with historical context. Most modern historians like to put a lot of weight on racial justice issues that frankly, I think are bullshit to apply as a valuable means of learning about the past. Andrew Jackson was terrible to native Americans. But so was John Quincy Adams, James Monroe, James Madison, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams and George Washington. Not to mention his successors. In fact until maybe the early 20th century we never had a single President whose behavior towards natives was anything but reprehensible (I'm talking about Teddy here.) Now, many of the Presidents before then may not have actively done terrible things to natives, but a lot of the tale of American mistreatment of natives doesn't necessarily involve the federal government. Much of it is the government signing treaties, and then turning a blind eye while armed whites (often backed by State government or territorial government leaders) dispossessed and forced out native peoples. A lot of Presidents other than Jackson did oversee vast warfare, deprivations, and forced locations of natives. The broader policy of "Indian removal" from "white" lands started at least two Presidents before Jackson, and continued in different ways long after Jackson was gone.

So basically what I'm saying is Jackson's fuckery towards Indians wasn't out of line with the times. The reason I dislike Jackson is far more to do with his behavior with regard to the Second Bank of the United States, and the significant impact this had on the ensuing panic/depression that persisted for years afterward, and also the fact that it set us back in terms of monetary policy 50 years.

[Eddie Teach]

I must be the only Andrew Jackson fan on Languish.

I'm a fan of his performance in New Orleans.

[Valmy]

I must be the only Andrew Jackson fan on Languish.

I am a fan of studying him and his era

[Valmy]

I dislike Jackson's policies, but with historical context. Most modern historians like to put a lot of weight on racial justice issues that frankly, I think are bullshit to apply as a valuable means of learning about the past. Andrew Jackson was terrible to native Americans. But so was John Quincy Adams, James Monroe, James Madison, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams and George Washington. Not to mention his successors. In fact until maybe the early 20th century we never had a single President whose behavior towards natives was anything but reprehensible (I'm talking about Teddy here.) Now, many of the Presidents before then may not have actively done terrible things to natives, but a lot of the tale of American mistreatment of natives doesn't necessarily involve the federal government. Much of it is the government signing treaties, and then turning a blind eye while armed whites (often backed by State government or territorial government leaders) dispossessed and forced out native peoples. A lot of Presidents other than Jackson did oversee vast warfare, deprivations, and forced locations of natives. The broader policy of "Indian removal" from "white" lands started at least two Presidents before Jackson, and continued in different ways long after Jackson was gone.

All true but we have to pin all our sins on somebody. In any case I am surprised to hear that such a non-nuanced view is actually held by historians. In my experience they mention the Indian Removal act in addition to all the other things Jackson did. I think the public has more latched onto the Indian Removal Act more than Historians. In most recent of the constant and rather annoying rankings of the US Presidents historians have to keep doing Jackson is still a top 15er.

He is definitely the most important man of the 'sons of the Founding Fathers' generation and one of the pivotal people in US History. Considering his effect I am not surprised you don't care for him.

In any case I do wonder how the Native American thing could have gone differently without a strong Federal Government to enforce the treaties. I guess friendly state governments but they had little incentive to be so. My hope is that we do as well as we can for the remaining nations as best we can.

[11B4V]

Disenfranchisement works much better when you can eliminate the votes by purging the rolls before the election.

Every single moment in time is before the election.  After the election is before the next election.

I'd recommend some light reading from the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights on the Florida voter purges of 2000, but you would just roll it up and smoke it.

Here we go.

[Valmy]

You don't think Sanders' supporters actually, you know, believed in his policy platform?

I do! That is the problem 

[Valmy]

Trump is just so awful. I can't even imagine another presidential candidate 'joking' about his opponent being killed.

I can in the future. The strategy is increasingly to say something that gets you talked about on Twitter and Facebook.

[CountDeMoney]

Here we go.

Don't worry, bitch.  You got the President you wanted, and everything that came with him. 

[11B4V]

Here we go.

Don't worry, bitch.  You got the President you wanted, and everything that came with him.

He was incredibly entertaining.

[Valmy]

Here we go.

Don't worry, bitch.  You got the President you wanted, and everything that came with him. 

I wanted George HW Bush part deux. I didn't end up getting that until midway through his second term. Too little too late.

[CountDeMoney]

Don't worry, bitch.  You got the President you wanted, and everything that came with him.

He was incredibly entertaining.

Yes, it was a ton of yuks. LOL LAUGHANISTAN

[CountDeMoney]

I wanted George HW Bush part deux. I didn't end up getting that until midway through his second term. Too little too late.

The fuck you get that one from, man; Poppy never checked out from the job because he was bored and made his brain hurt.