Has Morrisey always been such a douche?

[Queequeg]

The 510 look (super-super skinny) died in 2011.  511s (skinny), 514s (somewhat skinny) and 505s (barely skinny) will be around, but I think 501 is the place to go.  Shrink to fit, at least.  I just shrank my 1947 501s yesterday. 

[Martinus]

To me "hipster" describes a certain attitude which criticises the things that are popular with the mainstream just for the sake of it, and for similar reasons is fascinated with the obscure. This describes Spellus's attitude on everything, from history (Armenia was the best) to music (this thread) to cinema (Pulp Fiction sucks).

[garbon]

Really, nerdiness is kind of a requisite.

That's really not true at all.

[Josquius]

Hipsters to me are 'cool', attractive people who steal and subvert indie culture, not out of any genuine interest in indie but purely to further their own apparent coolness and attractiveness. Its a totally negative word.

[PDH]

Lot of words come to mind when I think of The Smiths.  Interesting isn't one of them.  Go with Gang of Four, New Order, Wire, or Roxy Music or something if you want interesting New Wave.  The Stone Roses and Happy Mondays were contemporaries of The Smiths, and way more interesting.  And better.

Spellus, you are such a myopic idiot. 

The Smiths ARE interesting because they changed the face of independent rock in the mid 1980s.  From the rather uninteresting trends in artificial that New Wave was becoming, the Smiths (along with their American counterparts REM) basically put guitars back into focus.  It is no surprise that the two "contemporaries" you list hit it after the Smiths broke up - the landscape had changed.  All that, and Morrissey is a douche.

[frunk]

Lot of words come to mind when I think of The Smiths.  Interesting isn't one of them.  Go with Gang of Four, New Order, Wire, or Roxy Music or something if you want interesting New Wave.  The Stone Roses and Happy Mondays were contemporaries of The Smiths, and way more interesting.  And better.

I was comparing the Smiths to Pulp, not all of New Wave.  Of course there are better bands from the 80s and from New Wave (many of which you didn't list) but Pulp isn't one of them, particularly musically.  The Smiths were much better at smoothing out otherwise awkward lyrics into the rhythm of the song.  With Pulp it sounds like the music and lyrics were generated independently and jammed together come what may.  It's ok to listen to occasionally, but it gets grating after an extended period.

[Drakken]

Yes.  He's half the man Jarvis Cocker is, and The Smiths never did anything close to Different Class.

"Disco 2000" and "I Spy" for the win.   

Although I know Pulp was there already there in the late 80s I've always felt that Different Class was a big, smarm "fuck you" to the domination of Blur and Oasis' kind of britpop music at the time. Not that it doesn't make it a good album; in fact, it's what makes it a great album.

[Ed Anger]

I hate your music. Damn kids these days.

[Queequeg]

That's really not true at all.

If you were to run in to a kid with a rat tail, a nature t-shirt, big, square mid-60s glasses, too-tight jeans and a moustache who couldn't stop talking about the greatest early-80s German Nigerian funk band in 1998, what would your reaction be? How about in 2008?

To me "hipster" describes a certain attitude which criticises the things that are popular with the mainstream just for the sake of it, and for similar reasons is fascinated with the obscure. This describes Spellus's attitude on everything, from history (Armenia was the best) to music (this thread) to cinema (Pulp Fiction sucks).

It's as much-probably more-fetishizing the obscure and authentic as criticizing the popular.  I think the two (obscure history geek and hipster) overlap relatively comfortably. 

Spellus, you are such a myopic idiot. 

.......but a decent troll because no one can tell when I am faking. 

The Smiths were probably the biggest influence on Stone Roses and Happy Mondays.  The Stone Roses is one of my favorite albums of all time, so I recognize that their influence, at least, was crucial.  The revival of the airy, guitar-dominated 60s sound by Johnny Mars & Co. was extremely important on the British scene.  However, I think it's hard to overstate how much the Stone Roses and other Madchester acts were influenced by wanting to turn away from The Smiths.  Stone Roses focus almost entirely on hoakey, twee romantic fantasy because in 1989 people were already really, really tired of The Smiths' schtick.  Madchester and later Britpop was pretty resolutely pissed at the pseudo-intellectual babble and upper middle class affectation of The Smiths. 

I also think are really overstating your case.  That's true from what I know of the British scene, but I don't think Sonic Youth, Fugazi or Pixies were ever that REM influenced.  They were all more influenced by Post-Punk and Post-Hardcore.  Thus, I don't think it is at all fair to ascribe to Morrisey Bryan Ferry, Brian Eno or David Byrne status.  He just isn't up there, and it's annoying to me that he gets more press than those three men combined just because he's a bigger asshole. (Or at least a more public one than Byrne.)

[Razgovory]

God, you are boring. 

[Jacob]

I thought it was mildly interesting

[garbon]

If you were to run in to a kid with a rat tail, a nature t-shirt, big, square mid-60s glasses, too-tight jeans and a moustache who couldn't stop talking about the greatest early-80s German Nigerian funk band in 1998, what would your reaction be? How about in 2008?

He'd be an asshole.

[PDH]

You underestimate the influence of the Georgia sound on early 1980s American Alternative, Spellus.

[Queequeg]

You underestimate the influence of the Georgia sound on early 1980s American Alternative, Spellus.

Possible.  But I think you're underestimating how different Post-Hardcore was from REM.  They're both important for American Alternative, but just because they fuse doesn't mean they had the same starting point.

[katmai]

This thread has taught me that neither Morissey nor Marti are anywhere as big a douche as Spellus.