Chicago Teachers Union leader Karen Lewis pushed back — and won

[garbon]

I dunno - I know lots of people who would love to be teachers, but are having trouble finding a job.

Sounds like on the supply / demand curve, supply is outstripping demand.  Hard to argue we need to raise their salaries.

But here a big part of that is funding. I mean even when I was in school we had a shortage of teachers because there was a shortage on how many the school system could afford.

[Admiral Yi]

Perhaps if scores were driven strictly by teacher effort.

Perhaps if the average change in scores were determined largely by teacher effort, with some additional noise in the system that is randomly distributed.

[DGuller]

I think economic equality goes a long way with such things, as it does with most social ills.  Eliminating fail cases benefits the society a lot more than maximizing potential of the over-achievers.

Honestly, I think you're wrong on both counts. The first is a case of correlation not causation. Being poor doesn't make kids do badly in school. Having shitty parents makes a kid more likely to be poor and also do badly in school. The second is a matter which cannot be divorced from subjectivity, but I'd always err on the side of maximizing potential whenever possible. That cannot be an absolute, however.

Regarding the second point, there is strength in depth.  A society in which majority of their members contribute can advance just as quickly, or maybe even quicker, than a society that advances on the backs of few great men at the costs of being dragged down by its underclass.  Scandinavians seem to punch far above their weight in pretty much every endeavor when you think about how sparsely populated Scandinavia is.

[garbon]

Perhaps if scores were driven strictly by teacher effort.

Perhaps if the average change in scores were determined largely by teacher effort, with some additional noise in the system that is randomly distributed.

I don't see how that clarification helps - as in I think my point still stands that it still isn't really fair. Even a gifted teacher can't lift up a completely uninspired student body.

[OttoVonBismarck]

The US might spend more then Finland on a per student basis but that spending does not go to the teachers.

And I would agree that is a concern if there is any evidence that issues like pay relative to other college graduates, and pay relative to teachers in other countries had a clear impact on education. In age past I might plot the data out but I just can't be bothered now. However looking at your chart and then looking at this report on science, reading, and math scores in the OECD, found here, I come to the following conclusions:

1. Spain is ranked #1 in the OECD in terms of teacher salary relative to other college graduates. Spain ranks 26th in the OECD World Education Rankings for 2010.

2. Germany is ranked #3 in the OECD in terms of teacher salary relative to other college graduates. Germany ranks 16th overall in the OECD World Education Rankings for 2010.

3. Sweden ranks 6th in teacher pay but 15th in overall OECD World Education Rankings.

4. Norway is 9th in OECD educational performance, but is either 18th or 22nd in pay ratings. (Note in your PDF Norway is strangely listed twice in the teacher salary relative to college degreed persons graph...I've also noticed OECD member Canada is absent from that graph so perhaps a typo occurred.)

But obviously you'd have to actually sit down and demonstrate how much correlation there even is, but it's obviously not a 1-to-1.

[CountDeMoney]

Germany ranks 16th overall in the OECD World Education Rankings for 2010.

I would've lost money on that bet.

[KRonn]

I hope these clowns remain on strike for a month. They had no reason to go on strike. Bunch of babies. Among the highest paid teachers in any big city. They don't want evaluations, too bad. They need to be accountable just like any other worker. They're out there in red shirts, flying a red and black revolution flag, spouting the evils of capitalism. And these clowns are teaching school kids?!

[CountDeMoney]

I hope these clowns remain on strike for a month. They had no reason to go on strike. Bunch of babies. Among the highest paid teachers in any big city. They don't want evaluations, too bad. They need to be accountable just like any other worker. They're out there in red shirts, flying a red and black revolution flag, spouting the evils of capitalism. And these clowns are teaching school kids?!

Meh, they had every reason to go on strike, Pat Buchanan.

[KRonn]

I hope these clowns remain on strike for a month. They had no reason to go on strike. Bunch of babies. Among the highest paid teachers in any big city. They don't want evaluations, too bad. They need to be accountable just like any other worker. They're out there in red shirts, flying a red and black revolution flag, spouting the evils of capitalism. And these clowns are teaching school kids?!

Meh, they had every reason to go on strike, Pat Buchanan.

No reason, more like spoiled and haven't gotten with the times that are changing. Teacher evals, a slightly longer school day which may school systems are trying to do. And they wanted large pay increases, on top of their already high pay by comparison. No, they just show more of why the teacher unions are becoming more and more disliked.

[Phillip V]

Teachers need to be destroyed.

[FunkMonk]

ok Neil

[CountDeMoney]

No reason, more like spoiled and haven't gotten with the times that are changing. Teacher evals,

Yes, the teacher evaluations.  There's no reason to have them at 40%, when 30% is good enough for the rest of the state of Illinois.  And there's nothing wrong with requesting a review process when it's your job on the line.

a slightly longer school day which may school systems are trying to do.

Not an unusual grievance when it comes to extending the 40 hour work week.  Commensurate pay.

And they wanted large pay increases, on top of their already high pay by comparison.

A pay increase over 3 years, staggered at 3%, 2% and 2% respectively, isn't outrageous, considering the pay freeze they've already had.  And their salaries are relatively high, because Chicago is expensive. 

No, they just show more of why the teacher unions are becoming more and more disliked.

Yes, demanding that text books actually be available for the first day of class is a true barometer of how far towards socialism teachers' unions have brought us.

You're a douchebag.  Should thank a teacher for that somewhere.

[CountDeMoney]

Interesting how nobody's bitching about the Chicago PD's bill for overtime this year clocking in at over $29 million over budget, though.

[KRonn]

Douchebag eh? Hey, I understand that you as a Democrat will support the over bearing, incestuous relationship of Dems and Dem supported public sector unions, especially the powerful teacher's unions. Huge cash cow for your party, and a rather despicable system, as you'd surely realize if the same were going on for the Repubs.

Teacher unions aren't there for the working guy. I and other taxpayers are the little guy, paying the freight for teacher unions so they can get better benefits and pay than those paying the freight. Add in the incestuous relationship with a political party and there you have the anger and dislike as more and more people wake up.

[CountDeMoney]

Douchebag eh? Hey, I understand that you as a Democrat will support the over bearing, incestuous relationship of Dems and Dem supported public sector unions, especially the powerful teacher's unions. Huge cash cow for your party, and a rather despicable system, as you'd surely realize if the same were going on for the Repubs.

Teacher unions aren't there for the working guy. I and other taxpayers are the little guy, paying the freight for teacher unions so they can get better benefits and pay than those paying the freight. Add in the incestuous relationship with a political party and there you have the anger and dislike as more and more people wake up.

  You used "incestuous" twice.