25 years old and deep in debt

[Admiral Yi]

2,75% of Germans were university students at the end of 2012.

This number is a little tough to wrap my head around.

What % of 18 years olds do you figure go on to university?

[Zanza]

What % of 18 years olds do you figure go on to university?

Apparently about 51% in 2013. That has risen a lot in the last five years as it used to be about 40%.

There are "dual" universities as well where you part-time study at a university and part-time work with a company, typically in stuff like accounting/marketing or in engineering/IT subjects. That has become quite popular in the last years AFAIK.

[Admiral Yi]

Wow.  Much higher than I would have guessed.

[crazy canuck]

Wow.  Much higher than I would have guessed.

Yeah, me too.

That is a substantial investment.

I for one welcome our new German overlords. 

[Zanza]

Germany increased investment into universities in the last decade. Good education is considered an important factor in economic competitiveness with the rest of the world. The fastest growth in student numbers is in our traditional strength: engineering.

Since 2005, number of students is up 43%, number of scientific university employees is up 27%, number of lecturers is up 55%, number of professors is up 13%. The relation of students to scientific university personnel has remained roughly constant since.

[DGuller]

 

[Ideologue]

Germany increased investment into universities in the last decade. Good education is considered an important factor in economic competitiveness with the rest of the world. The fastest growth in student numbers is in our traditional strength: engineering.

Since 2005, number of students is up 43%, number of scientific university employees is up 27%, number of lecturers is up 55%, number of professors is up 13%. The relation of students to scientific university personnel has remained roughly constant since.

Oh my God I wish you guys had won the war.

[Ed Anger]

Germany increased investment into universities in the last decade. Good education is considered an important factor in economic competitiveness with the rest of the world. The fastest growth in student numbers is in our traditional strength: engineering.

Since 2005, number of students is up 43%, number of scientific university employees is up 27%, number of lecturers is up 55%, number of professors is up 13%. The relation of students to scientific university personnel has remained roughly constant since.

Oh my God I wish you guys had won the war.

[Tonitrus]

Germany increased investment into universities in the last decade. Good education is considered an important factor in economic competitiveness with the rest of the world. The fastest growth in student numbers is in our traditional strength: engineering.

Since 2005, number of students is up 43%, number of scientific university employees is up 27%, number of lecturers is up 55%, number of professors is up 13%. The relation of students to scientific university personnel has remained roughly constant since.

Oh my God I wish you guys had won the war.

Now now, things would be a little different.  You'd probably have to spend a few years fighting Russian partisans in the Urals before you got the free education.

[Neil]

Germany increased investment into universities in the last decade. Good education is considered an important factor in economic competitiveness with the rest of the world. The fastest growth in student numbers is in our traditional strength: engineering.

Since 2005, number of students is up 43%, number of scientific university employees is up 27%, number of lecturers is up 55%, number of professors is up 13%. The relation of students to scientific university personnel has remained roughly constant since.

Oh my God I wish you guys had won the war.

Unfortunately for you, they pinned their hopes on strategic bombing.

[Baron von Schtinkenbutt]

Germany increased investment into universities in the last decade. Good education is considered an important factor in economic competitiveness with the rest of the world. The fastest growth in student numbers is in our traditional strength: engineering.

Since 2005, number of students is up 43%, number of scientific university employees is up 27%, number of lecturers is up 55%, number of professors is up 13%. The relation of students to scientific university personnel has remained roughly constant since.

And what do you do when the Bachelors is the new high school diploma and undergraduate becomes effectively another four years of compulsory schooling?  Where do we decide that enough is enough with education?

[Ideologue]

Possibly using central planning! OMG.

[Zanza]

And what do you do when the Bachelors is the new high school diploma and undergraduate becomes effectively another four years of compulsory schooling?  Where do we decide that enough is enough with education?

I think while more people study in Germany, the time they study actually gets less. Most students used to study for 5-6 years for something similar to a master's degree. Nowadays, a lot of people just study three years for a bachelor's degree and then do not continue with a master's degree. Furthermore the highest growth is with "universities of applied sciences" which basically teach job-related stuff, their lecturers are often externals from companies etc. and they don't have the typical humanities subjects where people get stuck. They also make internships (usually paid in Germany) mandatory. Combine that with a boom of those dual studies where you are actually employed while being a part-time student.

School was shortened from 13 to 12 years and conscription was abolished, so Germans are actually 1-2 years younger when they start their studies nowadays too. So I don't think that the growth in students has actually moved the average age when people start working much.

[Josquius]

I don't see such a problem with university becoming compulsory.
True, it sucks for those of us who would have went to university anyway, we lost any advantage we may have had. But overall adulthood is getting pushed back and lifespans are getting longer so...it makes sense for people not to enter right into work at 16 as was the case in the days of yore.
The problem is there's no work at the end of the process....


Though streamed European systems with technical schools and that sort of thing are great I have to admire European kids for being grown up enough to actually choose that path. I had no idea what I wanted to do when I was 16 and the choices had to be made (still aren't entirely sure). Work was far from my mind thanks to the propeganda that university=good job that people still believed thanks to it being the case in our parents days. I can't imagine I ever would have chosen to take the 'lesser' path of technical school even if it made economic sense.

[Syt]

I had no idea what I wanted to do when I was 16 and the choices had to be made

What makes you think kids these days make better choices or have a better plan?