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Terrorism Preparedness

Started by Viking, August 14, 2012, 01:55:50 PM

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Viking

August 14, 2012, 01:55:50 PM Last Edit: August 14, 2012, 02:00:53 PM by Viking
OK I need Languishite input here. First lets re-write history a bit. No alt-hist timmy style harrassment here, this is a real issue, the names have been changed to re-focus the emotional impact and to enable the choices I want to give you.

In this alt-hist 9/11 happens in september 2004 rather than 2001 and october, during the election campaign minutes from a National Security Council meeting in 2001 emerge where the CIA warns that Al-Qaeda is working on hijacking jets and flying them into the WTC. In the minutes "W" is quoted saying that no preparations should be made because that kind of attack is highly unlikely.

What changes?
First Maxim - "There are only two amounts, too few and enough."
First Corollary - "You cannot have too many soldiers, only too few supplies."
Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.

HVC

#1
August 14, 2012, 01:59:21 PM
aliens invade.
Being lazy is bad; unless you still get what you want, then it's called "patience".
Hubris must be punished. Severely.

sbr

#2
August 14, 2012, 02:00:00 PM
The South still loses.

CountDeMoney

#3
August 14, 2012, 02:01:22 PM
Polish officer corps is still executed en masse.

Viking

#4
August 14, 2012, 02:01:59 PM
As I said this is a real issue. This is not an alt-hist joke.
First Maxim - "There are only two amounts, too few and enough."
First Corollary - "You cannot have too many soldiers, only too few supplies."
Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.

MadImmortalMan

#5
August 14, 2012, 02:03:22 PM
President John Kerry invades Iraq.  :P
"Stability is destabilizing." --Hyman Minsky

"Complacency can be a self-denying prophecy."
"We have nothing to fear but lack of fear itself." --Larry Summers

HVC

#6
August 14, 2012, 02:04:57 PM
Nothing really changes. Other attacks had occured before 9/11 (even at the towers) and no one took it really seriously. Bush would still win becasue he was the president during an attack and peoplewould rally behind him. Iraq would get invaded, because, and at the geopolitical level nothing really changes.

Plus, you know, the aliens thing.
Being lazy is bad; unless you still get what you want, then it's called "patience".
Hubris must be punished. Severely.

Barrister

#7
August 14, 2012, 02:05:34 PM
Quote from: Viking on August 14, 2012, 02:01:59 PM
As I said this is a real issue. This is not an alt-hist joke.

So tell us what the real issue is, rather than debate counter-factuals.

I vote that Giant Ants invade Best Litovsk.
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

sbr

#8
August 14, 2012, 02:08:45 PM
No alt-history is a "real issue"

Viking

#9
August 14, 2012, 02:09:14 PM
The issue here is that Jens Stoltenberg PM of Norway was advised to close the access for civilians to the bomb site at the government buildings that Behring-Breivik bombed four years before the attack. The PM declared that this was highly unlikely and killed the issue.

He wasn't warned of the possibility of an attack like the shooting at utøya, but rather of an Alfred P. Murrah type attack on the government administration block in downtown oslo. That bomb killed 7 people.
First Maxim - "There are only two amounts, too few and enough."
First Corollary - "You cannot have too many soldiers, only too few supplies."
Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.

Barrister

#10
August 14, 2012, 02:16:54 PM
Quote from: Viking on August 14, 2012, 02:09:14 PM
The issue here is that Jens Stoltenberg PM of Norway was advised to close the access for civilians to the bomb site at the government buildings that Behring-Breivik bombed four years before the attack. The PM declared that this was highly unlikely and killed the issue.

He wasn't warned of the possibility of an attack like the shooting at utøya, but rather of an Alfred P. Murrah type attack on the government administration block in downtown oslo. That bomb killed 7 people.

It depends how credible, and how specific, the warning was.

If, 4 years earlier, they had a specific and credible reason to think that building would be bombed, then yes that might be pretty serious.  If it was just a routine security assessment then no, no big deal.  IMO.

It's not as if the US didn't realize that WTC might be a terrorism target after all.
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

Viking

#11
August 14, 2012, 02:34:49 PM
It was a specific recommendation from the Renovation, Administration and Ecclesiastical Ministry supported by the Police Security Service and Oslo Police.
First Maxim - "There are only two amounts, too few and enough."
First Corollary - "You cannot have too many soldiers, only too few supplies."
Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.

Barrister

#12
August 14, 2012, 02:42:14 PM
Quote from: Viking on August 14, 2012, 02:34:49 PM
It was a specific recommendation from the Renovation, Administration and Ecclesiastical Ministry supported by the Police Security Service and Oslo Police.

But was it because of a specific threat?  Did they have reason to think someone in particular might plant a bomb there?
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

Viking

#13
August 14, 2012, 02:48:45 PM
No specific threat, it was identified as the nr2 terrorist target in Oslo (after the US embassy which has has been trying to get planning permission to move to a location designed to be safe since 2005, rather than next door to the Royal Palace and a shopping arcade). The location of the offices is a Downing Street type location with the offices being on a minor street in downtown oslo. The recommendation was to close that street to through traffic
First Maxim - "There are only two amounts, too few and enough."
First Corollary - "You cannot have too many soldiers, only too few supplies."
Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.

Razgovory

#14
August 14, 2012, 02:52:06 PM
Quote from: Viking on August 14, 2012, 02:09:14 PM
The issue here is that Jens Stoltenberg PM of Norway was advised to close the access for civilians to the bomb site at the government buildings that Behring-Breivik bombed four years before the attack. The PM declared that this was highly unlikely and killed the issue.

He wasn't warned of the possibility of an attack like the shooting at utøya, but rather of an Alfred P. Murrah type attack on the government administration block in downtown oslo. That bomb killed 7 people.

Well why didn't you just say that?
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017
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