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[crazy canuck]

Having watched the video now I would say similar, but Shapiro's book has (among many other things) a domestic terrorist who tries to kill the president (she's one of the heroes and looks like Natalie Portman which is an important plot point).

Another point of fixation of the right with V for Vendetta?

[Syt]

Having watched the video now I would say similar, but Shapiro's book has (among many other things) a domestic terrorist who tries to kill the president (she's one of the heroes and looks like Natalie Portman which is an important plot point).

Another point of fixation of the right with V for Vendetta?

https://www.amazon.com/True-Allegiance-Ben-Shapiro/dp/1682610772

America is coming apart. An illegal immigration crisis has broken out along America's Southern border—there are race riots in Detroit—a fiery female rancher-turned-militia leader has vowed revenge on the president for his arrogant policies—and the world's most notorious terrorist is planning a massive attack that could destroy the United States as we know it. Meanwhile the President is too consumed by legacy-seeking to see our country's deep peril.

Brett Hawthorne is the youngest general in the United States Army—and he's stuck, alone, behind enemy lines in Afghanistan. He's the last lost soldier of a failed war, fighting to stay alive and make it back home—but will he be able to stop the collapse of America in time?

The book also contains a scene of a nice cop shooting an 8 year old black kid who mouthed off at him - he thought the kid was armed but it was a toy gun, and how activists use the incident as a means for advancing their insurrectionist agenda.

[Josquius]

So basically its a typical dystopian sci fi but where the baddies are the heroes?

[Syt]

John Oliver on Tucker Carlson.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMGxxRRtmHc

Not sure about this segment. It's a decent enough catalog of why Tucker Carlson is a waste of carbon molecules, but it doesn't seem to really add anything we didn't know before.

[Admiral Yi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2ObplLKEGk

Rather well done shanty about Karens.

[viper37]

Here's a really surprising look at The Outlaw Josey Wales (one of my favorite movies) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AndsdQO0Wmk

I don't quite get all the hatred about God&Generals.  It's a boring movie, but I don't see it as championing the Lost Cause myth.  It simply makes the characters express themselves, express what they thought at the time, I never see it as imposing this view as the absolute truth on me.  I don't find it quite radical that people born&raised in a slave society's resent being told what to do with what they consider as no more than cows. 

I guess you could have them all being tortured souls or demons, that would please the modern crowd, but it would be just as bad.

[Valmy]

Here's a really surprising look at The Outlaw Josey Wales (one of my favorite movies) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AndsdQO0Wmk

I don't quite get all the hatred about God&Generals.  It's a boring movie, but I don't see it as championing the Lost Cause myth.  It simply makes the characters express themselves, express what they thought at the time, I never see it as imposing this view as the absolute truth on me.  I don't find it quite radical that people born&raised in a slave society's resent being told what to do with what they consider as no more than cows. 

I guess you could have them all being tortured souls or demons, that would please the modern crowd, but it would be just as bad.

Where was the analysis that the problem was they were too cheerful? Anyway it did have tons of scenes of them being tortured souls so I don't even understand your point.

The point was that the cheerleading session in the Virginia Secession convention wasn't anything like it was in actuality with many walking out in protest and emotions running high on both sides. Instead they make it look like only a tiny minority of weirdos did not want to secede, rather than it actually eventually leading the state splitting up. So kind of bullshit in addition to being boring.

[viper37]

I saw that the Wolf Conservation Center has a 24/7 live feed.

https://www.twitch.tv/wolfconservationcenter

I love animal documentaries.  But really, a 24/7 live feed of an enclosed forested area is a little too much for me

[viper37]

Here's a really surprising look at The Outlaw Josey Wales (one of my favorite movies) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AndsdQO0Wmk

I don't quite get all the hatred about God&Generals.  It's a boring movie, but I don't see it as championing the Lost Cause myth.  It simply makes the characters express themselves, express what they thought at the time, I never see it as imposing this view as the absolute truth on me.  I don't find it quite radical that people born&raised in a slave society's resent being told what to do with what they consider as no more than cows. 

I guess you could have them all being tortured souls or demons, that would please the modern crowd, but it would be just as bad.

Where was the analysis that the problem was they were too cheerful? Anyway it did have tons of scenes of them being tortured souls so I don't even understand your point.

The point was that the cheerleading session in the Virginia Secession convention wasn't anything like it was in actuality with many walking out in protest and emotions running high on both sides. Instead they make it look like only a tiny minority of weirdos did not want to secede, rather than it actually eventually leading the state splitting up. So kind of bullshit in addition to being boring.

Reading about it seems like many officers of the South didn't want their State to secede, but once done, they could not resolve themselves to fight against their neighbors & families.

Do you think the Northerners rallied behind the great cause of freeing all the slaves?  They all happily marched south to liberate them black folks from the injustice of them being considered unequal to white folks?

Look, people were raised/educated to consider blacks as an inferior "species", even in the North, not many people considered them equal, or were willing to see black families living next door to them.  You got to put things in proper context too.  It's morally abject to think so today, it wasn't back then.

I think all in all, Gods&Generals did a good job of presenting what the characters thought of themselves.  It made so in a really boring way, but it's insightful.  I never got the feeling the civil war happened because of a couple of weirdos on both sides from this movie, I never got the feeling Stonewall Jackson was a great misunderstood character full of love&empathy for his black brethren.  I guess they should have presented Lee as some kind of flesh eating monster to satisfy the sensibilities of a modern audience?  If so, I highly recommend Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter, it might be a better movie for such inclined audience.

Back then, people had a choice of fighting against their home or fighting for their country.  It's not something trivial.  You may hate Texas and most of your people, but your reaction would be different if all your family&friends were concentrated there.  Try to understand that instead of seeing every non pro-Union sentiment as nazism.

Finally, there's a difference between a bad, boring movie and a piece of propaganda.  Gone with the wind is an excellent movie, but it's very close to propaganda.  Gods&General is a bad movie, not something I'd show to my friends, but it's far from propaganda.  It's mostly disappointing because it follows Gettysburg, by the same author, which was a great movie.

[Syt]

Here's a really surprising look at The Outlaw Josey Wales (one of my favorite movies) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AndsdQO0Wmk

I don't quite get all the hatred about God&Generals.  It's a boring movie, but I don't see it as championing the Lost Cause myth.

Atun-Shei covers that too: https://youtu.be/S3E2FdedPwU

[Valmy]

Reading about it seems like many officers of the South didn't want their State to secede, but once done, they could not resolve themselves to fight against their neighbors & families.

Sure. The Unionists had to eventually come down on one side or the other. Jubal Early went from being a Unionist to being the fanatical leader of the Lost Causers. Others went radically in the other direction to the point even I think they were being a little unreasonable But we are talking about during the actual secession convention. Remember Virginia had met earlier that year and had voted to stay in the Union. They met again after Fort Sumpter and, despite it being contentious, voted to secede the second time but the way it is shown in the film is really boring and not historically accurate at all...which is just one of many scenes that suck and thus why the movie sucks

Do you think the Northerners rallied behind the great cause of freeing all the slaves?  They all happily marched south to liberate them black folks from the injustice of them being considered unequal to white folks?

Please provide me the evidence I think this. While there were abolitionists, which for some reason people making this stupid argument just pretend did not exist as if all the yankees were this hive mind, the majority did at least agree that slavery should not exist anywhere outside the Southern States which was why they voted for the Republican Party. But even many the Democrats, and those who were open to slavery spreading into territories where people wanted it, were angry about the actions of the Southerners. I think it is perfectly consistent to believe all of those things, even abolitionism, while still endorsing and supporting white supremacy.

Look, people were raised/educated to consider blacks as an inferior "species", even in the North, not many people considered them equal, or were willing to see black families living next door to them.  You got to put things in proper context too.  It's morally abject to think so today, it wasn't back then.

Yet Gods&Generals did not do this at all. In fact it did just the opposite and presented the Confederate Generals as being abolitionists with views designed to make them appealing to modern audiences. Gettysburg also did this in one cringey line, and hey I like James Longstreet as much as the next guy but come on. And G&G makes it worse by having all the black characters being so sympathetic to the southerners and their cause. Yes some certainly felt that way but at least have a few who felt differently.

I think all in all, Gods&Generals did a good job of presenting what the characters thought of themselves.

They did a good presenting what this director thought we should think of the characters, as figures with admirable 21st century values fighting for honor who wanted to free all the slaves despite fighting for the South.

It made so in a really boring way, but it's insightful.  I never got the feeling the civil war happened because of a couple of weirdos on both sides from this movie, I never got the feeling Stonewall Jackson was a great misunderstood character full of love&empathy for his black brethren.

I am glad you got that feeling, but the movie said the opposite.

I guess they should have presented Lee as some kind of flesh eating monster to satisfy the sensibilities of a modern audience?  If so, I highly recommend Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter, it might be a better movie for such inclined audience.

I don't think so but they can have northerners saying "Darkies" they might have at least touched on how different they were from us a little bit.

Back then, people had a choice of fighting against their home or fighting for their country.  It's not something trivial.  You may hate Texas and most of your people, but your reaction would be different if all your family&friends were concentrated there.  Try to understand that instead of seeing every non pro-Union sentiment as nazism.

What the flying fuck are you talking about? I love Texas and I love all of "my people" and I even love those guys who were pro-slavery and fought for the Confederacy. They were human beings and I am descended from them. But they weren't glowing balls of light either, their feelings were based on irrational fear and propaganda (and in some cases cynical self interest). But then whose aren't entirely not influenced by that kind of thing?

Finally, there's a difference between a bad, boring movie and a piece of propaganda.  Gone with the wind is an excellent movie, but it's very close to propaganda.  Gods&General is a bad movie, not something I'd show to my friends, but it's far from propaganda.  It's mostly disappointing because it follows Gettysburg, by the same author, which was a great movie.

It had inaccurate scenes that seemed weirdly and pointlessly pro-South. As if that many people are carrying a torch for the Confederacy that they need to be pandered to. I don't really care why they were but that is not a great way to get me to like your film. A sanctimonious film making all northerners appearing to be saintly figures would also be obnoxious.

It's mostly disappointing because it follows Gettysburg, by the same author, which was a great movie.

Cannot disagree there.

[Valmy]

Let me remind you that, according to letters and writings by the southerners themselves, they were 100% sure that if the slaves were freed they would murder them all Haiti-style. They would not be so casually saying they should free all the slaves.

[Berkut]

Here's a really surprising look at The Outlaw Josey Wales (one of my favorite movies) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AndsdQO0Wmk

I don't quite get all the hatred about God&Generals.  It's a boring movie, but I don't see it as championing the Lost Cause myth.  It simply makes the characters express themselves, express what they thought at the time, I never see it as imposing this view as the absolute truth on me.  I don't find it quite radical that people born&raised in a slave society's resent being told what to do with what they consider as no more than cows. 

I guess you could have them all being tortured souls or demons, that would please the modern crowd, but it would be just as bad.

The issue is not how the movie portrays the main characters and what they think, it is about how it portrays the actual reality of the world they lived in.

So no, making them all "tortured souls" would not fix this - so far as I am aware, they were not all that tortured anyway. They mostly thought their beliefs about slavery were noble and right.

But that doesn't mean you get a pass because you are just repeating what some figure thought, if at the same time you rather pointedly do NOT include the reality behind what they thought. If the only thing you know about the ACW is that the south had a bunch of people who claimed they fought for states rights and said slavery was fine and why, the black people never had it so good...and didn't actually show that the first claim is a lie, and the second observation just fucking untrue and horrifying, then in fact you probably are engaged in propaganda.

You are only presenting one particular viewpoint on a controversial subject, and in this case, a viewpoint that serious historians have largely dismissed as total bullshit.

[Berkut]

It had inaccurate scenes that seemed weirdly and pointlessly pro-South. As if that many people are carrying a torch for the Confederacy that they need to be pandered to. I don't really care why they were but that is not a great way to get me to like your film. A sanctimonious film making all northerners appearing to be saintly figures would also be obnoxious.

Exactly.

Could you imagine a ACW film that focused on the Union, and all the generals were all "We must fight to free our equal black brothers from slavery!" and every Union soldier was waxing on about how they were on a quest from god to bring equal rights, the vote, and equal opportunity to black people?

It would be ludicrous and roundly mocked by anyone who knows the truth. Most norther soldiers fought to preserve the Union, or simply because they were drafted. I am sure some of them had an opinion about slavery, probably even most opposed it - but that did not make them anti-racist. There is a lot of space between "Lets enslave them" and "They are equal"!

Just look how a movie like "Glory" portrays those fighting for the Union. Sure, there were definitely out and out "balls of light" abolitionists, but most of them were a rather mixed bag morally, at least by modern standards. And even the "best" of them morally were pretty sketchy by our standards.

[Syt]

The Hamburg miniature railroad diorama Miniatur Wunderland sets a world record - Model train plays classical hits on 2,840 wine glasses

https://youtu.be/aBNHmUT3GPg

Article: https://www.rte.ie/news/newslens/2021/0408/1208569-germany-model-train-music/