London, France's sixth biggest city

[Brazen]

It is kind of frightening how both Britain and France have these vast combinations of DC, New York, and LA all rolled into one dominating their countries.  Considering how insufferable any one of those cities are, the dominance of Paris and London over every aspect of life must be almost complete.

I think London and Paris are pretty resented.  But I think a lot of British cities have quite strong senses of identity so they don't feel quite so dominated.

Neither of these cities identifies itself as a single sprawling conurbation, they remain a series of villages with their own town centres, local identities and amenities.

[Gups]

That's pretty much true of London, except that I think we do have an identity - not as strong as (say) scousers but there is one nontheles.

Nt so sure about Paris. I get the impresssion that it is much more divided than London (by that inner ring road).

[Valmy]

I'm not sure how can make that claim without being whiny. Let's look at each.

That was tongue in cheek garbon.  Those cities dominate American life to a huge degree and transmit their values to the rest of us through their domination of political, cultural, and economic life.  They have a not-unjustified arrogance...which is the most annoying kind of arrogance

[garbon]

I'm not sure how can make that claim without being whiny. Let's look at each.

That was tongue in cheek garbon.  Those cities dominate American life to a huge degree and transmit their values to the rest of us through their domination of political, cultural, and economic life.  They have a not-unjustified arrogance...which is the most annoying kind of arrogance

[Zoupa]

Nt so sure about Paris. I get the impresssion that it is much more divided than London (by that inner ring road).

Are you taking about the peripherique? That's the outer ring road, and is the border between Paris and the suburbs.

[Gups]

Yep, that's it. Scared the shit out of me when I was driving on it last Summer.

We'd call an outer ringroad one that goes round the whole of a city (for London the M25) an inner ring road one that separates the suburbs from the city proper (for us the north and south circulars).

OPOur circulars are permeable, busy but normal streets with shops and houses. The peripherique looked pretty difficult to cross - it seemed something or a boundary.

[Oexmelin]

You are right. It actually marks the outer limits of the no man's land surrounding the walls of Paris (Thiers' Walls). The walls proper were situated on what are now the boulevards des Maréchaux, a kind of inner ring about 100 m from the périphérique highway. When the walls started to be disused in the early 1880s., the no man's land became slums (la zone) - i.e., the kind of property and people who are easily expropriated. Which they were, when the périphérique was started.

[Duque de Bragança]

There were some efforts to create a Greater Paris under Sarko at last but right now the only part agreed on is the suburb-to-suburb transportation.
And yes, the périphérique extérieur feels like a barrier specially when it divides from the poorer suburbs. Not that much a barrier if you go from Paris intra-muros to Levallois-Perret as some Languishites did some years ago.
The périphérique intérieur being the Boulevards des Maréchaux used by the PC buses and new trams.

The closest thing to the M25 would be the Francilienne that has yet to be finished in its west part.

There's another ring road, the A 86 closer to the périphérique extérieur (between 2 and 7 km from it) and another project beyond Île-de-France http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_contournement_de_Paris