Labor Polarization: Is this going to be the continued wave of the future?

[Jaron]

You speak dangerously. Especially in these times.

[Josquius]

I recall reading something interesting a few days ago, about how certain states in the US are passing legislation to help out companies who aren't solely aiming at making as high a profit as possible- they want to make some money but they also went to help people get employment, help the community, etc...
I have always been into such a polder system, as iffy as make-work is it is increasingly seeming like the only way to go.

[Jaron]

The answer is that we need to not allow third world countries to train their citizens to be specialized workers. These skills are the birthright of the First World.

[Brazen]

The Labour party came up with a quaint term for this, the "squeezed middle", which was the Oxford English Dictionary's word of the year for 2011.

Anyway, I know this term is a bit trite, but I think what we are witnessing is not really hollowing out the middle of the job market, but shift to what some call the "creative class", which are the people (of various pay levels) that perform creative functions and will continue to be paid more and more, whereas as pointed out, people in administrative/automatic functions will be replaced with software and robots.

I beg to differ that people in creative jobs get paid more and more 

I actually remember having a conversation about it with RH during one of London Languish meets - essentially, jobs these days come either as highly paid but also highly demanding (not just in terms of skills/education, but time, commitment, flexibility etc.) positions or as badly paid ones - there seems to be less and less stable, 9-5, medium-level paying jobs out there.

Many lower-paid jobs are demanding and require unsociable hours and unpaid overtime.

[Neil]

Anyway, I know this term is a bit trite, but I think what we are witnessing is not really hollowing out the middle of the job market, but shift to what some call the "creative class", which are the people (of various pay levels) that perform creative functions and will continue to be paid more and more, whereas as pointed out, people in administrative/automatic functions will be replaced with software and robots.

No, I don't think that's true at all.  Try being a writer, a musician or an artist.

The people doing the best seem to be those that don't add value, but instead those who are able to rig the system and scam people.

[alfred russel]

I was speaking to a co worker on Friday, and all the software guys in my company's Indian subsidiary get paid like 1.50-2/hour for programming. wtf, how can Americans compete with that?

First, there is a major time zone difference, if you need the people in India to interact with the US frequently. Conference calls with one party in the middle of the night and exchanging emails are not always a great way to build an integrated team. Second, there are reliability issues. The infrastructure in India isn't so solid, for ezample you probably won't get a western style electricity grid that reliably operates 24x7. The politics of running a business can be messy. Third, how are you going to hire these people? A business class ticket to India costs $7-8k. Are you going to go back and forth from India, managing it yourself? Or are you going to rely on an outsource agency in India which can be expensive, and also means that whatever work you are sending them is not in your control (look up Satyam for how this can go horribly wrong).

[DontSayBanana]

"Labor polarization," "shrinking middle class."  Old story, new headline.

[Tamas]

The only thing ending is the ease for uneducated and unskille folks in first world countries to get any kind of decent living. Call that the shrink of the middle class if you want, I call it the end of the illusion of a broad middle class.
We will find new ways to help one another, increased automation will create new kind of jobs, reduce basic costs of living, and leave more disposable income for services.


And Jaron's example: the US workers will compete with that. Their wages will decrease, while the Indian wages will rise. They will eventually meet somewhere

[Barrister]

I can't help but think "Man, it sure is different living in an area with a resource boom".

Not only can people without any particular skills get a job - they can earn a hell of a lot of money.  Plenty of diamond drillers and rig bosses make more than I do with my 8 years of university.  If anything it causes problems for small retail outlets who have trouble attracting workers because they have little ability to increase their pay.  Several fast food outlets in Whitehorse closed for exacly that reason - they were profitable, but they couldn't attract enough staff to compete with jobs in mining.

[OttoVonBismarck]

I can't help but think "Man, it sure is different living in an area with a resource boom".

Not only can people without any particular skills get a job - they can earn a hell of a lot of money.  Plenty of diamond drillers and rig bosses make more than I do with my 8 years of university.  If anything it causes problems for small retail outlets who have trouble attracting workers because they have little ability to increase their pay.  Several fast food outlets in Whitehorse closed for exacly that reason - they were profitable, but they couldn't attract enough staff to compete with jobs in mining.

That has its ups and downs, there's parts of North Dakota that pay six figures for oil and gas workers but shitty houses that used to cost $80,000 USD can't be bought for $250k now. Most people that take work up there can't rent anything because land lords have waiting lists 10 deep for every unit, so a lot of people are buying small lots of land and putting mobile homes up until they have enough money to have a house built (even the small plots of land are going for stupid prices.)

Plus they live in North Dakota, and have to wash their hands at the end of the day.

[Barrister]

I can't help but think "Man, it sure is different living in an area with a resource boom".

Not only can people without any particular skills get a job - they can earn a hell of a lot of money.  Plenty of diamond drillers and rig bosses make more than I do with my 8 years of university.  If anything it causes problems for small retail outlets who have trouble attracting workers because they have little ability to increase their pay.  Several fast food outlets in Whitehorse closed for exacly that reason - they were profitable, but they couldn't attract enough staff to compete with jobs in mining.

That has its ups and downs, there's parts of North Dakota that pay six figures for oil and gas workers but shitty houses that used to cost $80,000 USD can't be bought for $250k now. Most people that take work up there can't rent anything because land lords have waiting lists 10 deep for every unit, so a lot of people are buying small lots of land and putting mobile homes up until they have enough money to have a house built (even the small plots of land are going for stupid prices.)

Plus they live in North Dakota, and have to wash their hands at the end of the day.

Yes, there's that too.  Thankfully I've been a home owner for 10 years so I have generally made out well on the real estate increase, but it's not like you can cash out that money - the next place you buy is still going to be expensive.

What they do a lot here is they fly people in to these remote work camps for 2 weeks, then fly them abck out again.  It's cheaper than trying to build houses for them.

[Tonitrus]

And I imagine the other problem with those jobs is that they are unlikely to amount to a long career (I'd guess maybe a 5-10 year lifespan of work?), and who the hell would want to live in North Dakota when the work is done?

[Barrister]

And I imagine the other problem with those jobs is that they are unlikely to amount to a long career (I'd guess maybe a 5-10 year lifespan of work?), and who the hell would want to live in North Dakota when the work is done?

Why?  I know plenty of people who have worked 20 years or more in the oilfield.  It does tend to be hard on the body so you can't do it into your 50s and 60s, but you can definitely make a career of it.

And I like North Dakota.   Many fond memories of time spent in Fargo.

[katmai]

You are so clearly damaged.

[CountDeMoney]

And I like North Dakota.   Many fond memories of time spent in Fargo.

I'm sure the weekend crew at the Denny's has fond memories of you as well.