UEFA Euro 2012 Poland-Ukraine: Germans Glowing with Anticipation

[Martinus]

Tuesday is going to be fun. Poland faces Russia. If yesterday is any indicator, Russians will make a quick work out of Poles. I predict a riot.

[Syt]

It will be Katyn all over again.


I've read that there's rumors that Russian fans planned to unfold a transparent during the game reading "Smolensk" and then release lots of paper planes.

[Martinus]

It will be Katyn all over again.


I've read that there's rumors that Russian fans planned to unfold a transparent during the game reading "Smolensk" and then release lots of paper planes.

Yes, I read that too. 

See, for me this is along the same lines as making monkey sounds when an African player is playing - it's a crude joke. But people tend to get all up in arms over stuff like this for some reason.

[Tamas]

It will be Katyn all over again.


I've read that there's rumors that Russian fans planned to unfold a transparent during the game reading "Smolensk" and then release lots of paper planes.

Yes, I read that too. 

See, for me this is along the same lines as making monkey sounds when an African player is playing - it's a crude joke. But people tend to get all up in arms over stuff like this for some reason.

You have every reason to get worked up on monkey-sounds thrown at black guys, Mr. Polack. It is so primitive that. It implies that the person is actually an animal from the jungle.

[Jacob]

Denmark getting squashed is gonna be Awesome

Why?

[katmai]

Just trolling Liep, the no good bastard never introduced me to his sister.


and rooting for the Dutch.

[Martinus]

It will be Katyn all over again.


I've read that there's rumors that Russian fans planned to unfold a transparent during the game reading "Smolensk" and then release lots of paper planes.

Yes, I read that too. 

See, for me this is along the same lines as making monkey sounds when an African player is playing - it's a crude joke. But people tend to get all up in arms over stuff like this for some reason.

You have every reason to get worked up on monkey-sounds thrown at black guys, Mr. Polack. It is so primitive that. It implies that the person is actually an animal from the jungle.

But that's not really different from us making fun of you that you live in a swamp, use beets and goats as a currency and are a gypsy. Or making jokes about a plane crash or 911.

What I resent in the modern society is the double standard that gives some groups a protected status (even if I belong to a group that is rapidly coming to a forefront of such special status) that the other groups do not enjoy. So it's better to throw the door wide open and allow everything than having arbitrary political correctness like this.

Edit: And I never said this was a good or a sophisticated joke - I called it primitive and crude myself. But people are not calling it a bad joke - they are calling it racist and want someone to be punished for that.

[Martinus]

That is actually a broader issue - as long as people are not actually and directly calling to violence or committing violence, they should be free to say whatever they like. I want to live in a society where a Swedish pastor may preach that gays go to hell and a London-based imam may call homosexuals to be worse than pigs and not be punished for it, as long as I can likewise draw a caricature of Mohammad being sodomized by Jesus - the alternative is illiberal and ultimately much much worse.

Hell, I am even reconsidering laws that ban discrimination in (private) workplaces or in access to privately offered goods and services - because you are unable to arrive at a universal standard that is not unfair (why is it fine for a gogo bar to turn down an ugly girl but not fine for a right wing organization to turn down a flamboyantly gay clerk or for a butchery store to turn down a muslim - the ugly girl can do just as much about her ugliness as the gay guy can do about his homosexuality; not to mention the universally accepted discrimination against the naturally-born stupid).

So you end up with inequality, where groups with better lobbyists get better treatment than the ones who do not have that.

[Martinus]

Coming back to football, there is this joke that has so far been true for the last decade or so (and looks like it may be true this time as well) that Poles always play three games only in any championship:

- the opening game
- the game for everything, and
- the game for honor.

It looks like we are on the good way to fall into the same pattern again. The game for everything will be the game with Russia which I predict we will lose ignominiously, and the third game will be the game with Czech Republic which we will win, thus giving us a (honorable) third place in the group.

Russia and Greece will leave the group.

[Martinus]

My predictions for "our" group:

Russia - Poland 2:1
Russia - Greece 1:1
Greece - Czech Republic 2:0
Poland - Czech Republic 2:1

Greeks have been traditionally very good in defensive so I think they will stop Russians, and Poles are good in offensive but weak in defensive so while we will score a goal on Russians they will score more.

[Tamas]

Marty, two things:
-for years you got into a blind rage if anyone made a slight gay joke on the forum

-the ones who think it is funny to make monkey-sounds toward black people are dumb savages who are a waste of oxygen. It is not a witty joke FFS. They are convinced they are superior to the black guys on the merit of skin color, and you would know this full well if you would leave the confines of the Warsaw gay aristocracy for a while.

[Martinus]

-for years you got into a blind rage if anyone made a slight gay joke on the forum

People can change.

[Sheilbh]

The Slavs got to dominate today's proceedings...tommorow the Germanic peoples shall show their stuff.

One of the ITV Commentator's yesterday was saying how 'Poland is the perfect choice for both of these teams.  They've just had to travel a short distance from Poland's flanks to get here.'  The historically aware in the nation flinched.

I take your points from a libertarian perspective Marty, though I disagree because I don't mind political correctness.

But I think the national teams with black players are entirely right to not tolerate racism and I think that UEFA have every right to try and stop it happening in football grounds by players or by fans.  If you want to go and chant monkey noises at black players, do it in your pub.  Football as a private organisation is, in my view, entirely right to say that regardless of where they are that racism won't be tolerated.  This isn't about society at large, or laws but a private organisation whose goal is to deliver entertaining football matches.

[Hansmeister]

Dammit, the French satellite dish is down due to a card burning out, so I won't be able to watch the EC at all. 

[FunkMonk]

Are you able to watch an online stream? I'm sure there are dozens of legal (and illegal) streams up.