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Should voters be required to show photo ID?

Started by derspiess, April 04, 2012, 12:25:19 PM

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Should voters be required to show photo ID?

Yes
31 (62%)
No
14 (28%)
Only Jaron
5 (10%)

Total Members Voted: 50

Razgovory

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on April 10, 2012, 09:10:07 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 10, 2012, 09:07:25 AM
I suspect that voter fraud is much less of a problem then is often assumed considering how low the number charges and convictions have been made about it.  It makes a good excuse for why the election didn't go the way you wanted it to.

That could be a sign that it's rare, or it could be a sign that it's easy to hide.  :hmm:

I suppose that's true for any statistic.  Blacks may make up the majority of the population in the US, but are simply really good at hiding and nobody know about it.  I doubt this is the case though.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Eddie Teach

I would posit that the rates of different races being uncounted by the census are much closer to each other than the rates of different crimes being discovered and reported.
To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?

11B4V

Quote from: derspiess on April 09, 2012, 03:48:38 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 09, 2012, 01:37:56 PM
Figures.  Go out and buy some more guns.  That ought to calm your nerves.

Yes, it's fear that drives me to collect guns.  In fact, I sleep with a Mosin Nagant under my pillow.  Bayonet retracted, of course.

One would not want to poke oneself. ;)
"there's a long tradition of insulting people we disagree with here, and I'll be damned if I listen to your entreaties otherwise."-OVB

"Obviously not a Berkut-commanded armored column.  They're not all brewing."- CdM

"We've reached one of our phase lines after the firefight and it smells bad—meaning it's a little bit suspicious... Could be an amb—".

11B4V

Quote from: crazy canuck on April 09, 2012, 01:37:56 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 09, 2012, 01:33:18 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 09, 2012, 01:27:05 PM
That is what you guys are afraid of right?  Illegal immigrants voting en masse against your interests?

Yes, terribly.  Keeps us up at night.

Figures.  Go out and buy some more guns.  That ought to calm your nerves.

Actually I find reloading more relaxing.
"there's a long tradition of insulting people we disagree with here, and I'll be damned if I listen to your entreaties otherwise."-OVB

"Obviously not a Berkut-commanded armored column.  They're not all brewing."- CdM

"We've reached one of our phase lines after the firefight and it smells bad—meaning it's a little bit suspicious... Could be an amb—".

dps

Quote from: Razgovory on April 10, 2012, 09:07:25 AM
I suspect that voter fraud is much less of a problem then is often assumed considering how low the number charges and convictions have been made about it.  It makes a good excuse for why the election didn't go the way you wanted it to.

Well, let me qualify what I said earlier a bit.  I think it's more common than many people realize (and yes, I think it's probably easy to get away with) but I think that it's less of a problem on a national scale than it might otherwise be because it's done by both parties, so a lot of it cancels out--though on a local or state basis it might be a huge problem.

And when I say "it's done by both parties", I don't think that the national party heirachies have much to do with it.  It's at the local level that it's done (and probably sometimes it's not so much a "party" thing as fraud done to favor a particular individual--for example, in local elections in areas of WV where Republicans never win local elections, I've heard a lot of allegations of fraud in Democratic primaries).

Razgovory

Do you have any proof?  Allegations of fraud may very well be sour grapes or cognitive dissonance to explain why the majority isn't winning.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Maximus

Quote from: Sheilbh on April 10, 2012, 03:30:47 AM
I've said that I don't think the level of fraud justifies the extra hassle.  I certainly don't think it justifies the hassle and the cost of providing people with free, legitimate photo ID.
There are many more benefits to having a universally-recognized secure ID system. Personally I think that, like education, it is something society and the economy would benefit from as a whole and is something government is uniquely situated to provide.

Sheilbh

Quote from: Maximus on April 10, 2012, 10:17:54 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 10, 2012, 03:30:47 AM
I've said that I don't think the level of fraud justifies the extra hassle.  I certainly don't think it justifies the hassle and the cost of providing people with free, legitimate photo ID.
There are many more benefits to having a universally-recognized secure ID system. Personally I think that, like education, it is something society and the economy would benefit from as a whole and is something government is uniquely situated to provide.
As I say I don't mind the continental method.  They've got national, mandatory IDs so it seems fine that they have got show their ID to vote.  But as you say it would have other uses - though personally I'm sceptical. 

If you don't have a national ID system then I don't think it's right to impose that requirement on a voter.  But I think spending money on providing free IDs just for people who want to vote is wasteful and not worth the cost when fraud isn't a significant problem.
Let's bomb Russia!

Berkut

Quote from: Maximus on April 10, 2012, 10:17:54 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 10, 2012, 03:30:47 AM
I've said that I don't think the level of fraud justifies the extra hassle.  I certainly don't think it justifies the hassle and the cost of providing people with free, legitimate photo ID.
There are many more benefits to having a universally-recognized secure ID system. Personally I think that, like education, it is something society and the economy would benefit from as a whole and is something government is uniquely situated to provide.

I actually do not disagree - honestly, I find the American phobia towards ID rather bizarre.

I would actually support a national ID law, or at least not be particularly opposed to it, on the grounds that there would be many benefits to a consistent and relatively more secure way to identify people for a variety of different reasons, one of which might be to reduce the potential for voter fraud.

But that isn't what these laws are about, unfortunately.
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

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Maximus

Quote from: Berkut on April 10, 2012, 10:34:59 AM
I actually do not disagree - honestly, I find the American phobia towards ID rather bizarre.
Yea, anyone who wants to keep track of you already has an ID system for you. The difference is you can't make use of it or track the use of it by others.

crazy canuck

Quote from: 11B4V on April 10, 2012, 09:37:52 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 09, 2012, 01:37:56 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 09, 2012, 01:33:18 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 09, 2012, 01:27:05 PM
That is what you guys are afraid of right?  Illegal immigrants voting en masse against your interests?

Yes, terribly.  Keeps us up at night.

Figures.  Go out and buy some more guns.  That ought to calm your nerves.

Actually I find reloading more relaxing.

Just dont sleep with it under your pillow unless the safety is securely in place.


Better still learn to cope without deadly toys. :)

Siege



"All men are created equal, then some become infantry."

"Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't."

"Laissez faire et laissez passer, le monde va de lui même!"



derspiess

"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

dps

Quote from: Razgovory on April 10, 2012, 10:09:53 AM
Do you have any proof?  Allegations of fraud may very well be sour grapes or cognitive dissonance to explain why the majority isn't winning.

If I had proof, I'd be telling the FBI, not Languish.