Obama on Iran, Israel and Nukes

[Razgovory]

Hans and Raz are remarkably the same kind of guy when it coms to politics: choose a side, study the memo on what that means, and follow it like gospel in "debates". They just happened to choose different sides, probably because of the source of their income

It is one of the more amusing 'tard fights we see here.  Two men going into a battle of wits completely unarmed.

Not that they lack good points; they just don't know how to tell the difference between their good points and their asses.

Better to go into the pit swinging then be the coward who sits on the sidelines throwing petty barbs.  What do you actually stand for Grumbler?  As far as I can tell, nothing.  Perhaps you can enlighten us all and tell us where you stand.  What are your beliefs? 

[Razgovory]

Americans payed more taxes in the past, and they can do so again.  "I don't want to pay more taxes" is not a good excuse.  You need to stop enabling these tax protesters and the like.

But then, you and and the rest of the GOP don't care about debt or deficit, do you?  It's only a useful club to beat Obama with.  You had years when you could have done something.  Instead Bush and the GOP congress racked up enormous debt.  Why should we trust any Republican not to do it again?

But Americans didn't pay more taxes, that's the point.  They might have had higher tax rates, but that didn't translate into higher taxes.  Taxes paid have averaged around 18.6 percent, with deviations mainly cause by the economic cycles, not changes in tax rate.  The big change over time has been that the deviations have increased as the US tax system has become more and more progressive.

Debt under Bush decreased as a share of GDP, since it grew at a rate less than economic growth.  The only growth in entitlement spending was the prescription drug benefit, which unusual for DC came in far below expectation (due to its market based approach).  As originally conceived it would have actually reduced long-term Medicare costs since the prescription benefits were only available to those seniors who enrolled in less expensive managed care plans, not to those in the pricey fee-for-services plan.  Alas, in order to get enough Democrats on board in the Senate that limitation was lifted at the last moment before passage, driving up the overall cost.  Outside of war spending discretionary spending rose relatively moderately over the entire tenure of the Bush administration.  I wish they had been more conservative, but Bush was hardly reckless in their approach, the same ca not be said for the completely insane approach the Democrats have been using for the last few years: No budgeting, and massive expansion of both entitlement spending and discretionary spending.  Due to the baby boomer bubble the US already faced some challenges in future entitlement obligation, the Democrats went completely insane and cause a massive expansion of an already unsustainable entitlement system.

Indeed, the reason the Democrats have refused to pass a budget for three years is because the law requires the use of CBO numbers in their projections and theire was no way to sex up the numbers under CBO to not make it look like a complete train wreck.  Since the WH is under no such limitation they can and do simply assume ridiculous future growth and spending revisions to make their budget look even partially plausible.

Pure nonsense.  Prove that people never paid anymore taxes then.  And blaming the failures of Bush's medicare plan on the Dems is laughable.  Show some numbers to prove your points.

[Neil]

Still, tax avoidance would be less of a problem with a simplified tax code, as would tax evasion.  You'd have all those IRS types that would have to be put to work somhow.

[Razgovory]

Still, tax avoidance would be less of a problem with a simplified tax code, as would tax evasion.  You'd have all those IRS types that would have to be put to work somhow.

IRS is often underfunded.  We should put bounties for tax cheats.  The IRS guy that catches him gets a percentage.  Now that's how to run government like a business.

[Neil]

Still, tax avoidance would be less of a problem with a simplified tax code, as would tax evasion.  You'd have all those IRS types that would have to be put to work somhow.

IRS is often underfunded.  We should put bounties for tax cheats.  The IRS guy that catches him gets a percentage.  Now that's how to run government like a business.

On the other hand, if the tax system becomes simpler, than the IRS won't be underfunded anymore, because their jobs get easier.

[Razgovory]

No, it's intentionally underfunded.  Because GOPtards hate it.  If you lowered the operating costs, they'd lower the funding further.

[11B4V]

How in the fuck did this thread get on taxes?

How many ADHD kids does it take to change a light bulb.
































Wanna go bike riding.

[Sheilbh]

On the other hand, if the tax system becomes simpler, than the IRS won't be underfunded anymore, because their jobs get easier.

The conservative government in New Zealand did both.  Revenue neutral simplification in year 1, then tax cuts over 5 years and an increase in funding for the Revenue Department.

[Hansmeister]

Still, tax avoidance would be less of a problem with a simplified tax code, as would tax evasion.  You'd have all those IRS types that would have to be put to work somhow.

Of course, but then the purpose of our tax system isn't to raise revenue, but to reward friends and punish enemies, and to impose your will upon the people by forcing them to engage in behavior you approve of.

Oh, and also to ensure that everybody is in violation of the law so they can put the hammer down on anyone at anytime.  I doubt it is even humanly possible to not be breaking the tax law.

[derspiess]

No, it's intentionally underfunded.  Because GOPtards hate it.  If you lowered the operating costs, they'd lower the funding further.

Everyone hates the IRS

[CountDeMoney]

How many ADHD kids does it take to change a light bulb.


Wanna go bike riding.

I'm so bulk-emailing that to my sister's Mommy Group.

[Razgovory]

Still, tax avoidance would be less of a problem with a simplified tax code, as would tax evasion.  You'd have all those IRS types that would have to be put to work somhow.

Of course, but then the purpose of our tax system isn't to raise revenue, but to reward friends and punish enemies, and to impose your will upon the people by forcing them to engage in behavior you approve of.

Oh, and also to ensure that everybody is in violation of the law so they can put the hammer down on anyone at anytime.  I doubt it is even humanly possible to not be breaking the tax law.

No, our tax system is indeed meant to raise revenue.  You're just paranoid.

[Razgovory]

No, it's intentionally underfunded.  Because GOPtards hate it.  If you lowered the operating costs, they'd lower the funding further.

Everyone hates the IRS

Only the selfish, stupid and shortsighted.

[Neil]

Still, tax avoidance would be less of a problem with a simplified tax code, as would tax evasion.  You'd have all those IRS types that would have to be put to work somhow.

Of course, but then the purpose of our tax system isn't to raise revenue, but to reward friends and punish enemies, and to impose your will upon the people by forcing them to engage in behavior you approve of.

Oh, and also to ensure that everybody is in violation of the law so they can put the hammer down on anyone at anytime.  I doubt it is even humanly possible to not be breaking the tax law.

No, our tax system is indeed meant to raise revenue.  You're just paranoid.

Primarily, but it's also been used as a tool for social engineering.

[Eddie Teach]

Everyone hates the IRS

Only the selfish, stupid and shortsighted.

That pretty much covers everyone.