Elie Wiesel calls out Mitt Romney on dead Jew baptisms.

[CountDeMoney]

It's the delegitimization of an individual.

The Wiesels are no longer legitimate Jews?

Not to Mormons.

[DGuller]

And for the rest of you atheist/agnostic fuckwits and antisemitic homo-fuckers with hang-ups that condescendingly look down your noses on those wishing to follow their faith, and to be remembered as a member of that faith, go fuck yourselves and your over-educated, cynical, secular-sanctimony.

When we all die eventually, atheists are going to have the last laugh from heaven at all you religious folks.

[CountDeMoney]

When we all die eventually, atheists are going to have the last laugh from heaven at all you religious folks.

I'm not particularly religious, but I do find that religious tolerance is going out of style, which is a shame.

[Viking]

It sounds like the equivalent of someone like Viking getting his panties in knot because some goof said, "America is a Christian nation".

Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Tripoli


It is an insult for the simple reason that this is a deliberate violation the most fundamental values of the individual being baptized and is intended as such by those performing the ritual. The person being baptized was not a mormon in life so this is a violation of the deceased's personal values during his lifetime and, for those people who belive crap like that, it matters to them.

The only thing the dead have is their reputation, actions like this attempt to sully that reputation and show a monstrous disregard for the dead.

[Razgovory]

Yeah, like I said you, have some asshole bitching.

[Admiral Yi]

It is an insult for the simple reason that this is a deliberate violation the most fundamental values of the individual being baptized and is intended as such by those performing the ritual. The person being baptized was not a mormon in life so this is a violation of the deceased's personal values during his lifetime and, for those people who belive crap like that, it matters to them.

The only thing the dead have is their reputation, actions like this attempt to sully that reputation and show a monstrous disregard for the dead.

Violation of fundamental values?  This is just PC-babble Puffin.  Not like you at all.

[Malthus]

You really think it's a big deal?  Sounds like nothing to me.  It's not like they're digging up Elie's parents and sloshing water on their skeletons is it?  What's the harm if a bunch of white guys in long johns proclaim this or that Jew baptized?

Agreed.  Never got the outrage over this.  If the Mormons want to do virtual posthumous baptism of my grandparents, let em knock themselves out.  This doesn't even reach the level of prayers before high school football games.

The outrage is that they know it offends people and keep on doing it. It is sort of like telling an off-colour joke: no intent to offend at first, but if somebody says it isn't an appropriate joke for that company, telling more of the same rises to the level of obnoxiousness.

[grumbler]

It is an insult for the simple reason that this is a deliberate violation the most fundamental values of the individual being baptized and is intended as such by those performing the ritual. The person being baptized was not a mormon in life so this is a violation of the deceased's personal values during his lifetime and, for those people who belive crap like that, it matters to them. 

I don't understand how you insult dead people by giving their "spirits" the chance at eternal... whatever benefit Mormons get.

Mormons don't think that including dead people on the IGI makes them Mormons.  It just makes it possible for the dead to become Mormons if they wish.

[CountDeMoney]

Mormons don't think that including dead people on the IGI makes them Mormons.  It just makes it possible for the dead to become Mormons if they wish.

[The Minsky Moment]

The only thing the dead have is their reputation, actions like this attempt to sully that reputation and show a monstrous disregard for the dead.

Fred Phelps and his clown factory show monstrous disregard for the dead and sully their reputation.  This isn't quite the same.
Perspective, people, perspective.

[The Minsky Moment]

The outrage is that they know it offends people and keep on doing it. It is sort of like telling an off-colour joke: no intent to offend at first, but if somebody says it isn't an appropriate joke for that company, telling more of the same rises to the level of obnoxiousness.

No question it is boorish and tactless.  But no more so than ordinary proselytization, which just about every religion does.

[grumbler]

The outrage is that they know it offends people and keep on doing it. It is sort of like telling an off-colour joke: no intent to offend at first, but if somebody says it isn't an appropriate joke for that company, telling more of the same rises to the level of obnoxiousness.

Actually, Marti, it is nothing like telling off-color jokes.  The LDS church has stated (since 1995) that no member can baptize anyone not related to them by blood.  Church officials don't know who exactly is related to whom in their congregations, so they cannot prevent the alleged posthumous baptism of people not related to existing members, but it isn't like they were deliberately telling off-color jokes.  It is more like someone used the word "niggardly" to describe a budget allocation, being told it is racially offensive, agreeing not to use it, and having someone in their employ use the word "coward" and thus upset the beef industry.

[Admiral Yi]

The outrage is that they know it offends people and keep on doing it. It is sort of like telling an off-colour joke: no intent to offend at first, but if somebody says it isn't an appropriate joke for that company, telling more of the same rises to the level of obnoxiousness.

In the same way that forbidding Muslim honor killings or teaching evolution in a class with fundies is obnoxious.

[Martinus]

And yeah, Marty:  they're doing it with fags--dead fags are baptized into the faith, too.  So you'll be remembered as a straight Mormon 300 years from now.  When we search "cock-nibbling antisemitic toe suckers" on Ancestry.com, we won't find you.

Why the fuck should I care about it? I will be dead.

On the other hand, if by the time I die I become someone who is remembered for something special 300 years from now, then surely there will be enough records of me so Mormon "history rewriting" won't do much good.

[Syt]

One is born into one's faith, one follows his faith if he wishes, one lives his life according to his faith if he chooses, he weds under the sanction and brings his children into the world under his faith.  That is the choice of faith.

For another faith to come around and say, "Meh, we're putting you on our books" and co-opting you into their faith postmortem is offensive, invasive and perverse. It's the delegitimization of an individual.  That's not a choice of faith.

I am (according to AnchorClanker) agnostic, and I agree with this message. Everyone should be able to follow their religion in private or public as long as they don't violate other people's personal rights.