[AAR] No Retreat - Berkut vs. Tamas

[Jacob]

You did not even say it right... 

Ok so I was drunk, writing in a foreign language. Sue me

Excuses are the nails to the house of failure... 

... and you shouldn't give your laundry to kittens with guns 

[Ancient Demon]

I noted during our last session that my initially very positive views of the game were not lasting.

Please explain.

[Habbaku]

The designer's one of the biggest tools in the biz, for one.

Wait, that's my reason for not playing.

[Berkut]

I noted during our last session that my initially very positive views of the game were not lasting.

Please explain.

A variety of things.

1. East Front games where the Soviets are not effected by weather annoy me. It is fine that the Germans even get effected MORE by the weather, or that you can even say that first winter was especially bad for them because they were not prepared, but the general rule of "In Winter, attacker is shifted down a column if the defender is Soviet" is somewhat idiotic. Like Russians don't feel the cold, or Russian trucks drive in the snow better or Russian soldiers don't get cold.

2. My other "meh" is that the way the combat system and replacement system works, the Russians really don't care how many losses they take. In fact, it doesn't even really matter how many Russians you kill, because the replacement system largely amounts to "take all dead Russians, stick them back on the map". This probably works for balance and "design for effect" reasons, but from a gameplay perspective, it makes it kind of pointless to come up with clever tactics to pocket and kill Russians. So what? They are all coming back anyway, so why bother? To some degree this is a feature, because it does force the German player to make his attacks have a purpose beyond just trying to kill Russians. The opportunity to kill a few units is not really a good enough reason to attack, since it won't matter anyway, you need to have a purpose beyond that.

But it still makes the combat phase less interesting, IMO. There are all these interesting cards that let you do interesting things, that mostly amount to nothing at all, because at the end of the day, who cares that you just made a nice play to kill some units or cut them out of supply? They are just coming back anyway. Play well, and you kill more Russians, that all come back. Play poorly, and you kill less Russians, which amounts to the same thing...

[11B4V]

So, the game sucks?

[Berkut]

No, I would not say that at all. Just has some things that I don't like, still plenty that I do like. Haven't played it nearly enough to decide if it sucks or not.

[Tamas]

Regarding unit losses: Sure the Russians can bring back no  matter how many. As long as they can pay with cards.

And you draw 4 cards per turn. And freshly replaced units can't attack unless you burn one more card of them. And surrendered units cost 2 cards just to get back. While the German player keeps killing Russians, he holds complete control over initative and flow of the game.

With such  low counter-density, how else could you simulate the conflict without the flow of Russian replacements?

I still have a pretty good opinion about the game, but let's see how the late game goes.

[Berkut]

Regarding unit losses: Sure the Russians can bring back no  matter how many. As long as they can pay with cards.

And of course they can, since they have nothing else to do with their cards. Sure, they could use them for combat - but why do that? Why spend a card to influence a combat, when it doesn't matter if you lose because you can just toss the card to get the unit back anyway?

And you draw 4 cards per turn. And freshly replaced units can't attack unless you burn one more card of them.

They don't generally want to attack, so that is immaterial.

And surrendered units cost 2 cards just to get back.

Oh dear. Of course, alternatively you can just play the "Take 2 units back from anywhere and plop them on the board" card, which amounts to 1 card that counts as 4.

While the German player keeps killing Russians, he holds complete control over initative and flow of the game.

He holds that anyway, until he doesn't, at which point he can no longer kill Russians except piecemeal, and it likely doesn't matter then either.

With such  low counter-density, how else could you simulate the conflict without the flow of Russian replacements?

I don't know - I am not saying there is a better way, I am saying that the way it works makes for a negative gaming experience. It could be that is the only possible way, but that doesn't make it any more fun.

I still have a pretty good opinion about the game, but let's see how the late game goes.

Sure. You would have to send a file to do that though. It's been...4 days now.

[Tamas]

Sure. You would have to send a file to do that though. It's been...4 days now.

I didn't see it arrive the last time. Will do it once I have some free time at work.

[Habbaku]

Sure. You would have to send a file to do that though. It's been...4 days now.

Clearly, his morale to play the game is starting to fade now that the initiative has swung.

[Warspite]

Someone should make a Downfall clip about this game between Berks and Tamas :p

[Viking]

Someone should make a Downfall clip about this game between Berks and Tamas :p

Es Bleiben in Raum Keitl, Jodl, Krebs und Burgdorf
Now I wish to make a reasoned criticism of the game as it is designed

DAS WAR EIN BEFEHL!
THIS GAME SUCKS MAGYAR GYPSY ASS!

DAS ANGRIFF STEINERS WAR EIN BEFEHL!
ITS COMPLETELY UNFAIR THAT RUSSIAN UNITS GET TO MAGIC BACK TO LIFE!

etc?

[Tamas]

TURN 13 MAY-JUNE 1943

A big German concentration of forces reversed Soviet gains from last turn with a furious offensive.

The Soviets had a wonderful hand of cards, and made a similar concentration north-east of German-held Kharkov to strike heavily on the German lines which were made vulnerable by their offensive.

However, German counter-card plays, and above all, dysmal dice rolls stopped the entire Soviet offensive in it's tracks and caused severe losses.

A true tragedy that may very well be looked up on later as the decisive act of the war.

[grumbler]

Thanks for the update, and thanks for putting the date, not just the turn number, in the title.

I wasn't at all sure where you guys were in the game, calender-wise.

And, sorry to see you get the crap rolls.  I guess you can just hope that the same happens at some point to Berkut.

[Berkut]

Hey, he got one great roll, getting a 6 on the CRT for a "Defender Shattered" result.

But Manstein came along, forcing a re-roll which was "No Effect".