French lawmakers pass genocide law on Armenians

[Razgovory]

You Europeans are far to obsessed with class.  I've read these arguments from the French, but I think it has more to do with French pride and refusal to admit that the 1st French Republic was a bloodthirsty monstrosity.

[Sheilbh]

You Europeans are far to obsessed with class.  I've read these arguments from the French, but I think it has more to do with French pride and refusal to admit that the 1st French Republic was a bloodthirsty monstrosity.

Ignoring class in the French revolution is madness.  As I say I don't think it's central as some interpretations would say, but the Vendee is unusually class based.

I believe the Revolution's still a hugely contentious issue in France.  In terms of history you've got such elegant partisans as Taine, Michelet and de Tocqueville. 

That's carried on into the modern day.  There's still a division between the liberal left and the right on the subject of the Revolution.  Marxist analysis still carries a great deal of weight but is undermined by writers like Furet.  In addition French historians have analogised the Terror with the Khmer Rouge and Soviet Russia.  All of which I can go along with to some extent.

But I draw the line at the, many, French historians who describe bloodthirstiness as being in the 'chromosomes of the Revolution', the ones who suggest a 'Franco-French genocide' in the Vendee, or those who, on the eve of the bicentenary, said the only appropriate celebration would be to drink a cup of human blood.

[Martinus]

There are already laws like this in most of Europe when it comes to Holocaust, so not sure why it is so strange to pass some laws when it comes to other genocidal murders of a comparable magnitude. Plus this is obviously a political move before the upcoming presidential elections to fuck with the muslims/Turks as this is the general sentiment in France right now. Nothing to see here really. You Americans are funny when you get all excited about stuff like this.

You Poles are funny when your President decides to slam his plane into the ground in Russia.

Or when you fail to have a first world economy. Or when you have gay-bashing parades in Warsaw.

What gay-bashing parades in Warsaw? And what's that jab about our economy? It's pretty good.

[Martinus]

Excuse me, but some of us do support capital punishment. 

I haven't heard anyone here "tout" it, though.  Look the word up.  It's the word Marti used.

I've stated that I think that the death penalty should be the standard punishment for murder.  I think that can be contrused as promoting it.  Granted, I don't generally bring it up unless crime and punishment are already the topic under discussion.

Wow, you consider yourself a Christian. 

You just go to prove that religious zealots are irredeemable no matter what decent front they try to project. I hope you and your family die in a fire so these genes don't propagate.

[Razgovory]

I really respect you Sheilbh, but I don't think I'll ever understand you.

[Zoupa]

I really respect you Sheilbh, but I don't think I'll ever understand you.

That's because I've never seen you change your mind about anything discussed here on this board. I don't know if that's because of your condition, but it makes it disheartening to argue with you.

[szmik]

You guys have to understand that Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Religion are not the holy grail of European liberalism. We have had different historical experiences and while we consider these two rights to be important, they are not paramount - we would rather gag nazis and fundies than let them win elections, thank you very much.

For the record, you sound equally insane to us when you tout death penalty, unrestricted gun ownership or the parents' right to affect school curricula.

... and the worst thing is most people in Europe Poland think your attitude is actually liberal  you fuckin euronazi

[mongers]

I really respect you Sheilbh, but I don't think I'll ever understand you.

That's because I've never seen you change your mind about anything discussed here on this board. I don't know if that's because of your condition, but it makes it disheartening to argue with you.

Don't see what Raz's 'condition' has to do with it, as you've just described the majority of posters here. 

[szmik]

..... I hope you and your family die in a fire so these genes don't propagate.

just because yours won't 

[Razgovory]

I really respect you Sheilbh, but I don't think I'll ever understand you.

That's because I've never seen you change your mind about anything discussed here on this board. I don't know if that's because of your condition, but it makes it disheartening to argue with you.

You could watch me closer.  I change my mind about shit.  For instance, I didn't think the Libyan adventure was going to be a good idea.  Turns out I was wrong.  Happy me!  I'm not Fahdiz where I change religions, wives, and political philosophies at the drop of a hat, no.

[Razgovory]

You guys have to understand that Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Religion are not the holy grail of European liberalism. We have had different historical experiences and while we consider these two rights to be important, they are not paramount - we would rather gag nazis and fundies than let them win elections, thank you very much.

For the record, you sound equally insane to us when you tout death penalty, unrestricted gun ownership or the parents' right to affect school curricula.

... and the worst thing is most people in Europe Poland think your attitude is actually liberal  you fuckin euronazi

The Fundies aren't really that bad.  And we've had precious few actual Nazis elected.  In fact, our freedom of Speech and Freedom of Religion has really deterred excesses by Fundies or potential Nazis.  Sure bad apples get elected from time to time, but the beauty of it is, they can't do that much harm and we can toss them out on their ass.

[dps]

Excuse me, but some of us do support capital punishment. 

I haven't heard anyone here "tout" it, though.  Look the word up.  It's the word Marti used.

I've stated that I think that the death penalty should be the standard punishment for murder.  I think that can be contrused as promoting it.  Granted, I don't generally bring it up unless crime and punishment are already the topic under discussion.

Wow, you consider yourself a Christian. 

You just go to prove that religious zealots are irredeemable no matter what decent front they try to project. I hope you and your family die in a fire so these genes don't propagate.

You've never shown any real knowledge of what non-Catholic Christians actually believe or think--which, to be fair, isn't easy, because there exists such diversity within Christianity that it's hard to make any a lot of statements that would generally be applicable.  But then, that's kind of the point--you don't seem to realize that Christians--even fundamentalists--aren't a monolithic bloc that all think alike.  At any rate,  given your prejudices, you're about the last person whose opinion about whether or not I'm a good Christian would matter to anyone. 

For the record, there are plenty of other Christians in America--including other fundamentalists--who agree with me.  And also plenty of atheists, and people of pretty much all other religious backgrounds.  OTOH, there are plenty of other Christians here--including other fundamentalists--who are completely opposed to the death penalty, as well as plenty of atheists and people of almost all other religious/spiritual outlooks.  Most people here, regardless of their faith (or lack thereof) are somewhere in between in their view of capital punishment.

[garbon]

just because yours won't 

Why would you assume that?  Terribly easy for him to / many homosexuals have had children.

[Razgovory]

Not even all Catholics think a like.  I think Marty has accepted some kind of stereotype about Polish Catholics and assumes that fits most if not all Catholics worldwide.  Hell, it may not even fit all Catholics in Poland.