Greece shocks markets with referendum on austerity

[Martinus]

Maybe we should just accept the fact that markets are volatile, irrational and unpredictable. Recently, comments from market "experts" resemble ramblings of Roman augurs reading haruspices.

Yeah.  I was watching the news last night.  They had one head of a hedge fund on saying the Euro was going to collapse, it was unsustainable, Greece needed to default.  Then they had the head of HSBC's ForEx trading saying the Euro wasn't going to collapse, bit more volatile than recently but will be okay, Greece may default and that the other guy shouldn't be invited on to talk about what he doesn't understand.

It made the wonderful Greek Communist MP a real relief.  As well as flirting with Jon Snow and calling him 'my dear' she described the referendum as a choice betwee 'would you like to die or do you want us to kill you?'  All in an extraordinary Arianna Huffington accent

Did she tell Jon Snow that he knows nothing?

[alfred russel]

Funny-ass day: Greek politics are in absolute chaos, the government has lost it's majority, which causes world markets to... rocket up high, in hopes that this will somehow cancel the referendum and makes accepting the deal easier.

Maybe we should just accept the fact that markets are volatile, irrational and unpredictable. Recently, comments from market "experts" resemble ramblings of Roman augurs reading haruspices.

What may bolster this is the understanding that Greece isn't actually big enough to matter. Greece is relevant because of: a) it is a signal of what will happen in Spain and Italy (not sure I buy this), and b) a lot of its debt is held by financial institutions in larger countries, and if the debt goes into default those institutions could be undermined unleashing another credit crisis (I might have bought this a while back, but institutions have had a lot of time to prepare, and the recent deal reducing debt by 50% brought a positive market reaction and no new credit trauma).

[Capetan Mihali]

Good for the Greeks.  When "austerity" = squeezing the working class even further, it's worthless.  This is not 1942 Britain austerity, it is "austerity" precipitated by elite finance and reinforced by tired racist morality tropes about hardworking Protestants and lazy Mediterraneans.  Greece has always been a colonized nation, from the Ottomans to their degrading Danish monarchy to a brutal civil war 10 years after the Spanish to a US/NATO-backed dictatorship within recent memory that must have all but destroyed any faith of the citizenry in the virtues of the same neoliberalism that produced this very crisis.

neoliberalism? Ever-rising number and salaries of the greek public sector, for the last 30 years? The medieval guild systems enacted in most trades? In general, the rampant overspending, given extra fuel by the cheap loans the euro gave to the government. Come on.

Neoliberalism is the today's economic left's word for "bad". It is used against anything they don't like. It's like "fascism" in politics - a completely devalued and misused word.

  Maybe you can go back to proclaiming yourself "a classical liberal" like you did five years ago, before your heated reaction to certain issues pushed you to become an ersatz leftist for a spell.  A truly spoiled bourgeois who insulates himself from any critical analysis of his situation and his privileges can only experiment with any sort of oppositional politics, like the college girls who are "Bisexual Until Graduation." 

[Martinus]

Actually, I have drifted from "classic liberal" positions to what I would describe as "soc-liberal" or "social liberal". I still believe in free market but I believe it should offer some protections to weaker actors (consumers, employees etc.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_liberalism

[MadImmortalMan]

There's some great investments to be had here, guys. You can get a rate of 231% on Greek 1-year treasuries.

[DGuller]

There's some great investments to be had here, guys. You can get a rate of 231% on Greek 1-year treasuries.

That looks like a great return.  Is there risk involved?

[Valmy]

bourgeois

What are you some sort of industrial laborer or something?

[fhdz]

Maybe we should just accept the fact that markets are volatile, irrational and unpredictable. Recently, comments from market "experts" resemble ramblings of Roman augurs reading haruspices.

Augurs read bird flight patterns, not entrails.

[fhdz]

That looks like a great return.  Is there risk involved?

[Capetan Mihali]

bourgeois

What are you some sort of industrial laborer or something?

  I am bewildered.  Do you have to be the opposite of the descriptive term you're using?  If I describe someone as an athlete, do I have to be "some sort of couch potato or something"?

[MadImmortalMan]

It's a 19th century term that people don't really use in conversational English unless they are...unusual.

[Jacob]

It's a 19th century term that people don't really use in conversational English unless they are...unusual.

Nonetheless, it describes Marty quite accurately.

[DGuller]

It's a 19th century term that people don't really use in conversational English unless they are...unusual.

Nonetheless, it describes Marty quite accurately.

What is the term that describes Marty quite accurately? I assume you're talking about some insult or obscenity.

[alfred russel]

There's some great investments to be had here, guys. You can get a rate of 231% on Greek 1-year treasuries.

That looks like a great return.  Is there risk involved?

Nah, the fundamentals are sound, and this is the result of a speculative attack.

[Valmy]

  I am bewildered.  Do you have to be the opposite of the descriptive term you're using?  If I describe someone as an athlete, do I have to be "some sort of couch potato or something"?

I mean I get the 19th century idea of a class who make money based on their ownership of capitol rather than labor or aristocratic rentiers.  But in a modern economy, particularly where such a huge percentage work in service industries, what does that refer to?  Because clearly Marty is not an owner of a factory with workers making money off their labor for him to alienate and exploit.  Does it refer to people who are above a certain education level, or who own a certain amount of property, or make a certain level of wages, or what exactly?