Wall Street protesters: We're in for the long haul

[Oexmelin]

It makes so much sense: the 1% is made up of elderly civil service employees!

[garbon]

It makes so much sense: the 1% is made up of elderly civil service employees!

I don't think that is what the article is saying. Of course, it is always good to keep in mind that it is hardly the case that all of the 99% is suffering.

[Grallon]

It makes so much sense: the 1% is made up of elderly civil service employees!

Whenever CC interjects in this thread I keep being reminded of those people who claim that it's the poor folks' fault if they are poor.

So XIXth century!  That's what it must be to be a 'conservative'!3




G.

[Admiral Yi]

Whenever CC interjects in this thread I keep being reminded of those people who claim that it's the poor folks' fault if they are poor.

Who's fault is it that Sarvanez Asasy can't find a job in international human rights that pays enough for $60,000 in debt?

[Ideologue]

The "educational" institution that took his, or more accurately society's, money.

The fraud is generally considered worse than the defrauded, however foolish the latter might be; except on the right, where they are celebrated as entrepreneurs.

Additionally:

It's the virtueocracy itself. It's the people who constructed a benefit-heavy entitlement system whose costs can no longer be sustained.

My understanding is that this is incorrect: a choice was made not to sustain it, in exchange for the short term benefits of a minimal tax burden.  That didn't work out very well.

[Habsburg]

It makes so much sense: the 1% is made up of elderly civil service employees!

Whenever CC interjects in this thread I keep being reminded of those people who claim that it's the poor folks' fault if they are poor.

So XIXth century!  That's what it must be to be a 'conservative'!3




G.

[Razgovory]

Yi, do you see similarities with the Occupy guys and the Tea Party movement?

[garbon]

The "educational" institution that took his, or more accurately society's, money.

The fraud is generally considered worse than the defrauded, however foolish the latter might be; except on the right, where they are celebrated as entrepreneurs.

Why is it the institution's fault that she doesn't have the ability to leverage her degree into a high paying job? Did her university guarantee her a good paying job in these times where college degrees are more like a price to compete? Did they suggest it would be a good financial investment to get a masters in international human rights?

[Ideologue]

The "educational" institution that took his, or more accurately society's, money.

The fraud is generally considered worse than the defrauded, however foolish the latter might be; except on the right, where they are celebrated as entrepreneurs.

Why is it the institution's fault that she doesn't have the ability to leverage her degree into a high paying job? Did her university guarantee her a good paying job in these times where college degrees are more like a price to compete? Did they suggest it would be a good financial investment to get a masters in international human rights?

Did they accurately represent that it was a poor investment, indeed a terrible investment?

I'll compromise on mutual fault if it makes you happy, but exploiting foolishness and naivete is hardly exemplary behavior, and a desire to help people--if perhaps pursued in the dumbest way possible--is rather preferable to an indifference to harming individuals and society as a whole in order to make a profit.

The really crushing thing about educational investments--and naturally I've been thinking about that a lot--is that they're inalienable.  A house is still worth something, can be sold, if at a severe loss.  A degree cannot be sold, cannot be returned.  And of course the debt cannot even be discharged.

Do you think it's a desirable or even tenable situation, the hundreds of billions of dollars in debt owed on basically bad, near-zero-worth investments?  Do you think it's merely the inevitable operation of a free market?  If so, why so callous, old friend?  A price to compete?  That's the kind of society you want, where ambition, often noble ambition, is exploited for gain and rewarded with permanent destitution?  Where enormous resources are misallocated and the value of education diminished and destroyed by a monstrous hybrid of communism and capitalism worse than either?

[garbon]

Did they accurately represent that it was a poor investment, indeed a terrible investment?

I'll compromise on mutual fault if it makes you happy, but exploiting foolishness and naivete is hardly exemplary behavior, and a desire to help people--if perhaps pursued in the dumbest way possible--is rather preferable to an indifference to harming individuals and society as a whole in order to make a profit.

It could be break even given a high status school and the right pitch of it to potential employers. That said, why so cynical chum? It is certainly the case that universities offer courses/degrees that are valuable for the sake of education and perhaps the life of an academic.  Why do you want universities to simply be degree mills where they churn out individuals who will be guaranteed great jobs?

The really crushing thing about educational investments--and naturally I've been thinking about that a lot--is that they're inalienable.  A house is still worth something, can be sold, if at a severe loss.  A degree cannot be sold, cannot be returned.  And of course the debt cannot even be discharged.

I'm not sure this is here nor there - unless the suggestion is that individuals and their parents are too stupid to make rational decisions for themselves.

Do you think it's a desirable or even tenable situation, the hundreds of billions of dollars in debt owed on basically bad, near-zero-worth investments?

I'm not sure why the only value in a university degree is its supposed potential to make one wonderfully employable.

Do you think it's merely the inevitable operation of a free market?  If so, why so callous, old friend?  A price to compete?  That's the kind of society you want, where ambition, often noble ambition, is exploited for gain and rewarded with permanent destitution? Where enormous resources are misallocated and the value of education diminished and destroyed by a monstrous hybrid of communism and capitalism worse than either?

I'm not really sure what to say here as I'm not coming from a place where every university operates like DeVry. I don't think universities are vocational skills where one simply receives training on how to command a job that will net them easily more than they paid in for schooling.

[crazy canuck]

It makes so much sense: the 1% is made up of elderly civil service employees!

Whenever CC interjects in this thread I keep being reminded of those people who claim that it's the poor folks' fault if they are poor.

So XIXth century!  That's what it must be to be a 'conservative'!3




G.

You also have to remind yourself that I have always argued against that.  My take on the occupy Vancouver site is it is mainly a bunch of upper middle class kids being the faux poor for political theatre.

[crazy canuck]

The fraud is generally considered worse than the defrauded, however foolish the latter might be; except on the right, where they are celebrated as entrepreneurs.

For a fraud to have occured there had to be a promise by the university that someone with a degree in international human rights would end up with a high paying job.  Do you have any knowledge that any such promise was ever made?

My understanding is that this is incorrect: a choice was made not to sustain it, in exchange for the short term benefits of a minimal tax burden.  That didn't work out very well.

The alternative has worked out oh so well in the EU.

[crazy canuck]

On Thursday there was a near death at the occupy Vancouver site.  Yesterday someone did die.  Now even the major is saying the site should shut down.

The death of a woman at the Occupy Vancouver camp means the site has become so unsafe that it must be shut down as soon as possible, says Vancouver's mayor.

Gregor Robertson said Saturday night he's instructed city officials and the chiefs of the fire and police departments to look at how that can be done safely and peacefully.

The 20-year-old woman was found unresponsive in a tent at the site in front of the Vancouver Art Gallery on Saturday afternoon, two days after a man suffered a non-fatal overdose at the encampment.

"There is a serious problem here and we want to address it urgently," Mr. Robertson said.

The woman's death is tragic and is also upsetting for him because he has a 20-year-old daughter, he said.

Occupy Vancouver supporters tried to drown him out as he spoke to reporters, with one woman shouting that at least his daughter has a home.

"I think the protest on the really important issues that many of us are passionate about is being undermined by a tent camp and the issues around the right to camp on public space, which is really unfortunate," Mr. Robertson said.

"And now we have a critical incident that demonstrates there's life safety at risk here."

Mr. Robertson said the city is considering a number of options that include a possible injunction to end the encampment.

Const. Jana McGuinness of the Vancouver Police Department said neither the cause of the woman's death nor her identity are being released as police try to contact her family.

Several people at the protest site said the woman died of a drug overdose and heckled Robertson to provide more funding for addiction services and the homeless.

He told them the city has an outreach worker for the homeless and anyone at the site who doesn't have a home can be accommodated.

Const. McGuinness said police are facing a challenging situation as officials work to try and end the Occupy Vancouver camp.

"Officer safety and the safety of the protesters is paramount as well," she said, adding discussions in the coming days will involve people at the camp.

"We're hoping for co-operation should that time come," she said. "We want it to go smoothly. We don't want to see anybody be hurt."

Last week, the fire department ordered tents to be spaced further apart and for tarps to be removed so they could be accessed in case of an emergency.

But some campers said the orders were merely suggestions and that they didn't have to follow them.

The Occupy Vancouver site has become a major issue in the lead up to this month's civic election as Mr. Robertson vies to keep his job amid pressure by his rival to end the occupation at the art gallery.

Lauren Gill, who is running as an independent candidate in the election and is also an organizer at the camp, said the woman apparently died of a drug overdose.

The incident highlights the need for more addiction services because drugs are such a big issue in the city, said Ms. Gill, who said she's seen far too many overdose deaths as an outreach worker in mental health and addiction services.

"I think it's an issue that's all over our city and this is why we need Insite," she said of the supervised injection site in the Downtown Eastside where people shoot up their own drugs under medical supervision.

"We just lost a member of our community," she said. "It's a really strong community down here and we're going to do whatever we can to support each other."

Ms. Gill said she does not want to turn the death into a political issue and is hoping other candidates don't do that either.

The woman was found dead by a friend at about 4:30 p.m., just before a band called DOA started playing a scheduled gig at the camp.

On Saturday, tensions seem to be growing at the site. One television camera operator was shoved to the ground and some protesters began hassling reporters.

[Darth Wagtaros]

Someone not doing drugs, or at least not being a burden on society if they do decide to do them would be better than more services. 

[Neil]

Someone not doing drugs, or at least not being a burden on society if they do decide to do them would be better than more services.

It's Vancouver.  The whole place is a failed state that is getting colonized by peoples with superior morality.