Is our generation capable of pathos without auto-irony?

[Valmy]

Oddly enough, I would suggest finding a spectator sport you like, and going and cheering with a like group of people - there is nothing closer to that ritual moment of people all leveled then during a positive emotive moment of such an event.  Also, it is easier to not suffer the pangs of irony.

It is really ridiculous how powerful emotions are while being a fan of a team.  I am almost happier when some dude I do not know does something in a ridiculous game than I am when I achieve something.  I mean how amazing is that?  Sport fandom is like crack.

[HVC]

Oddly enough, I would suggest finding a spectator sport you like, and going and cheering with a like group of people - there is nothing closer to that ritual moment of people all leveled then during a positive emotive moment of such an event.  Also, it is easier to not suffer the pangs of irony.

It is really ridiculous how powerful emotions are while being a fan of a team.  I am almost happier when some dude I do not know does something in a ridiculous game than I am when I achieve something.  I mean how amazing is that?  Sport fandom is like crack.

i remember going to the zoo and watching the monkey's howl at a group of other money's fighting. i felt oddly similar to how we react during sports. As far as we go we are always rooted in what we are.

[The Brain]

The problem is that being a team sports fan is incredibly childish and working class.

[Warspite]

For what it's worth, I find that even when I find myself in moments of detached observance in various human rituals, be they funerals, weddings, etc, I can still take comfort in them.

Perhaps in the same way that when I eat chocolate, I know I'm doing it because it tastes good and releases pleasing chemicals in the body, but I still enjoy it. The deconstruction need not necessarily remove the underlying value.

Likewise, when I sit at a funeral of a loved one, I realise that we're not actually commiting his spirit to the sky, but rather sharing our grief with those who remain with the express purpose of helping generate some closure and ensure that life goes on.

Equally, I'm a big fan of football, and specifically, drawing some kind of identity from it. This may sound silly; after all, it's just a badge on a coloured shirt, and I'm just standing with a bunch of complete strangers, with whom I have little in common, out on the terraces. Nevertheless, I still find value in generating a fundamentally irrational sense of belonging and community, even though I'm on occasion deconstructing it to a basic facet of our existence as social animals. I guess having been brought up all over the place with a very chaotic (not in a bad way) childhood, it's not a problem if I self-consciously derive value - unchanging identity - from an arbitrary north London institution.

Would that I had done more anthropology at university, I could have expressed the above in a clearer, more jargon-filled form.

[MadImmortalMan]

Yeah I understand that (btw, thanks for taking time to understand my post rather than responding with a troll, like so many others).

I am just wondering if our generation(s) is not in the position of being a "permanent outsider" because we live in post-deconstructionist times.

Now, I understand a power of a ritual - and I am capable of being genuinely moved by it. This can be anything - from something as poignant as a friend's funeral (a catholic ceremony, no less, which is not "my community" but I was moved by it) to something as seemingly flippant as a gay pride parade (a modern day carnivale, which also has its place). But there is always the "deconstructionist censor" in the back of my head - always recognizing that I am moved on the emotional level, but deconstructing the ritual at the rational level.

My question is - is this (i) me being a sociopath, (ii) our generation being a bunch of postmodernist cynics, or (iii) people have always done that but didn't actually say that out loud before in fear of being ostracized?

I think you are the type of person who automatically begins from the assumption that you are an outsider looking in at some sort of sociological "other" community that you don't feel a part of. Even when the group in question does not necessarily wish to exclude you. Everyone has that reaction sometimes I think. You more often than most. And yeah, being gay probably does have a lot to do with it, not so much because gay is a fairly unusual trait, but because you derive so much more of your self-identity from that aspect than most people would.

We need a :freud: smiley. 

[Martinus]

Oddly enough, I would suggest finding a spectator sport you like, and going and cheering with a like group of people - there is nothing closer to that ritual moment of people all leveled then during a positive emotive moment of such an event.  Also, it is easier to not suffer the pangs of irony.

I wonder if Warsaw has a gay rugby league.

[Martinus]

I wonder if being gay has played a role in this for me since it makes me an outsider to a degree in most such cases.

Don't take away his self-imposed victimhood. It's the only source of comfort he has

I was just hoping we could get through one thread without an irrelevant reference to homosexuality.  If this thread was about participating in a threesome, then sure gay the shit out of the thread.  On a topic like this though, really?

Well, that's how my mind works, sorry.

When I read PDH's story, my line of thought went a bit like this:

1. Gee, that's a cool, moving story.
2. It would be moving to be in a situation like this.
3. I wonder if the people involved would act the same way if one of the participants and/or the dead person was openly gay.
4. 
5. 

[garbon]

Well, that's how my mind works, sorry.

When I read PDH's story, my line of thought went a bit like this:

1. Gee, that's a cool, moving story.
2. It would be moving to be in a situation like this.
3. I wonder if the people involved would act the same way if one of the participants and/or the dead person was openly gay.
4. 
5. 

I can't help it.

At least make an effort. My existence is really gayer than yours and you don't see me inserting sexuality nearly as much as you do.

[Martinus]

Well, that's how my mind works, sorry.

When I read PDH's story, my line of thought went a bit like this:

1. Gee, that's a cool, moving story.
2. It would be moving to be in a situation like this.
3. I wonder if the people involved would act the same way if one of the participants and/or the dead person was openly gay.
4. 
5. 

I can't help it.

At least make an effort. My existence is really gayer than yours and you don't see me inserting sexuality nearly as much as you do.

I can't help it. I think I got cynical like that when I read accounts of nazi death camps and Franco's camps for the "political undesirables" and found out that other prisoners actually ganged up on the ones who got there for being gay/effeminate. If that kind of situation did not make people feel the sense of fellowship with the gay ones, then likely any "human bonding" situation that happened 20+ years ago would take exception at gays and treat them as outsiders.

[The Brain]

NIMKZ is perfectly natural.

[Martinus]

Oddly enough, I would suggest finding a spectator sport you like, and going and cheering with a like group of people - there is nothing closer to that ritual moment of people all leveled then during a positive emotive moment of such an event.  Also, it is easier to not suffer the pangs of irony.

It is really ridiculous how powerful emotions are while being a fan of a team.  I am almost happier when some dude I do not know does something in a ridiculous game than I am when I achieve something.  I mean how amazing is that?  Sport fandom is like crack.

I never ever got that. I have always found that utterly ridiculous and totally alien to me. Maybe I just don't get this.

[Martinus]

NIMKZ is perfectly natural.

What does it mean?

[HVC]

Well, that's how my mind works, sorry.

When I read PDH's story, my line of thought went a bit like this:

1. Gee, that's a cool, moving story.
2. It would be moving to be in a situation like this.
3. I wonder if the people involved would act the same way if one of the participants and/or the dead person was openly gay.
4. 
5. 

I can't help it.

At least make an effort. My existence is really gayer than yours and you don't see me inserting sexuality nearly as much as you do.

I can't help it. I think I got cynical like that when I read accounts of nazi death camps and Franco's camps for the "political undesirables" and found out that other prisoners actually ganged up on the ones who got there for being gay/effeminate. If that kind of situation did not make people feel the sense of fellowship with the gay ones, then likely any "human bonding" situation that happened 20+ years ago would take exception at gays and treat them as outsiders.

Being gay you should know there is always a bottom ( ), people will always ostracize a minority. Go into the arts if you want to see gays decimate against others.

[Martinus]

The problem is that being a team sports fan is incredibly childish and working class.

This.

[garbon]

I can't help it. I think I got cynical like that when I read accounts of nazi death camps and Franco's camps for the "political undesirables" and found out that other prisoners actually ganged up on the ones who got there for being gay/effeminate. If that kind of situation did not make people feel the sense of fellowship with the gay ones, then likely any "human bonding" situation that happened 20+ years ago would take exception at gays and treat them as outsiders.

Cop out.  I've read similarly things and yet I keep the rainbow rage in check.  Besides doesn't it get tiring to always whine about the negative side to homosexuality? I'd rather focus on the positive.