Canada to firmly re-assess its status as a British colony

[viper37]

It seems that viper's position is that any kind of language bigotry or shortcoming that has been perpetrated by anglophones anywhere in North America at any time, justifies the same policies in Quebec; that the aggregate of all these disparate bigotries and discrimination represents the baseline of anglo attitudes towards non anglophones; and that failing to agree with this makes you a hypocrite.

This is what I'm talking about.

Not providing public english school for immigrants = bigotry.  (and human rights violation according to Galganov)
Not providing public french schools for Canadians (or control, or decent funding). = sensible policy.


You guys expect french to compete on equal levels with english.  Wich is unfair, because you ignore the active discrimination against french in the past, wich reduced the numbers outside of Quebec to an unmanageable level.

That's like anti global warming types saying the number of polar bears are stable so there should be no concerns about our activities.  It conveniently ignores the fact that the number of animals have been on severe decline for many years and only recently with conservation efforts has it stabilized.

According to most of you guys, Quebec should do just that: declare open season on French and let nature do its work.  Don't you think that's kinda silly?  French isn't exactly evolving outside of Quebec.  At best, we have slowed the decline in recent years.  Why should we abandon our language, our tradition our culture?

[Razgovory]

Why should anyone be concerned with one language "competing" with another?

[Razgovory]

So, in your opinion, it is bigotry that a state does not offer public education and health care in every language possible?

Are we actually talking about every language possible?  After all, you don't seem to be concerned with someone can get services in Tibetan.  In my opinion states and federal government should make a good faith effort to communicate with their citizens.  If someone tries to pass laws preventing these communications for instance refusal to fund Spanish language education in an area with a large Spanish population, provide tax forms in a language that the recipient can read, or otherwise try to use "soft" coercion to otherwise alienate and penalize speakers on one language, then yeah, that's bigotry.

[Capetan Mihali]

As I said, it depends on the state.  Vermont seems to find an interest in offering bilingual services in many places, even restaurants, airports and hotels.  Isn't it strange that you get expelled from an Air Canada aircraft for asking the company to respect its rules and provide you with french services while a country who owes nothing to French Canadian feels the need to teach french in schools and encourage employers to hire bilingual staff?

Well, I should say New England, especially Northern New England, owes a great deal of the benefits of its industrialization to the toil of French-Canadians in its mills and factories.  

When you pass Montpelier you get a "Bienvenue" with your Welcome, and I think New Hampshire has the same thing.  I don't really know about the extent to which French speakers are accommodated up here.  While French-Canadian ancestry is by far the most common in the area of Vermont I work in, so many generations have gone by that I don't know how much French is still spoken at home.

Your Subway mustard example is amusing, since I was just in a Subway this week where I had to intervene briefly (in English) to keep a francophone woman and her child from getting the wrong things put on their sandwich.  They had been debating their order for a long time behind me in French, so even with my limited skills, I had pretty much grasped what they were trying to order.

[garbon]

English-Quebecers have their own hospital. English only.  Sometimes, if you're lucky, you'll have a bilingual nurse.  They don't tolerate officially bilingual hospitals.

This costs a lot, doubling everything.  Why not bilingual hospitals, at least for the big, news ones?

So, in your opinion, it is bigotry that a state does not offer public education and health care in every language possible?

No but when you use rhetoric that you aren't going to offer education or healthcare in a given language because they are insulting you by not learning your language or a threat to your culture, then I think there's a high likelihood that it is bigotry. Such is totally motivating such policies in Texas.

[garbon]

So, in your opinion, it is bigotry that a state does not offer public education and health care in every language possible?

Are we actually talking about every language possible?  After all, you don't seem to be concerned with someone can get services in Tibetan.  In my opinion states and federal government should make a good faith effort to communicate with their citizens.  If someone tries to pass laws preventing these communications for instance refusal to fund Spanish language education in an area with a large Spanish population, provide tax forms in a language that the recipient can read, or otherwise try to use "soft" coercion to otherwise alienate and penalize speakers on one language, then yeah, that's bigotry.

[garbon]

According to most of you guys, Quebec should do just that: declare open season on French and let nature do its work.  Don't you think that's kinda silly?  French isn't exactly evolving outside of Quebec.  At best, we have slowed the decline in recent years.  Why should we abandon our language, our tradition our culture?

If I take all of your statements as truly representative of what is occurring in Quebec, it sounds like you're just delaying the inevitable. If people want to speak a language they will and if they don't they won't.

[Capetan Mihali]

Right now, there's a French program on the deportation of the Acadiens on 'RDI' (new channel for me) right now that I'm trying to follow/fall asleep to.   

[Capetan Mihali]

Actually, it seems to be mainly about remaining Acadien culture in contemporary Qc.

The radio stations I can pick up on my commute are few in number, roughly 1/3 country, 1/3 French-language, 1/3 misc (bad nu-metal, 80s, folk).  I run through all of them over the course of 25 minutes in the car, but the French stations definitely seem to play the most intense mix of styles...

[Grey Fox]

99,9 The Buzz, Mihali.

[Neil]

CHOI FM?

[Grey Fox]

CHOI FM?

That's in Quebec City.

[viper37]

Your Subway mustard example is amusing, since I was just in a Subway this week where I had to intervene briefly (in English) to keep a francophone woman and her child from getting the wrong things put on their sandwich.  They had been debating their order for a long time behind me in French, so even with my limited skills, I had pretty much grasped what they were trying to order.

yeah, over here, outside of standard hours, they don't always have bilingual staff.  They try to have at least 1-2 for lunch&dinner time, but there isn't enough volume to have 3 people all day long.  McDonald's have bilingual staff though, as they are located near the transcanadian highway, tourists are frequent.

[viper37]

No but when you use rhetoric that you aren't going to offer education or healthcare in a given language because they are insulting you by not learning your language or a threat to your culture, then I think there's a high likelihood that it is bigotry. Such is totally motivating such policies in Texas.

No.

I want bilingual hospitals in Montreal.  There's a critical mass there.  So why build two seperate research hospitals because anglos don't mix with french?  Would you think it's a good idea if New York had one public hospital staffed mostly by blacks and another staffed mostly by whites instead of one mixed hospital?  Why is it that segregation is considered acceptable for English Quebecers but we are the racists in suggesting they learn our language?

And I didn't say I wouldn't offer education to citizens.  I want them to keep their schools.  But I don't want to pay for my assimilation by education immigrants from all over the world in english.  I'm willing to consider special cases, i.e. teens who transfer from an english school outside the country, but otherwise, they should received their education in french. 

We can't possibly pay for everyone in their own language.  Jews&Arabs have their own private schools where they teach Hebrew&Arabic.  Foreign english speakers can't do it?  As I said, searching through the net, there doesn't seem to be a ton of non english public schools in the US.  I don't see why we should do it, given the precarious nature of our language and our limited funding when a gigantic country 10x richer we are and with no danger of assimilation in sight won't do it. 

Apparently, it's racist for us, not for the others.  And you find me weird for not understanding this double standard?

[viper37]

Right now, there's a French program on the deportation of the Acadiens on 'RDI' (new channel for me) right now that I'm trying to follow/fall asleep to.   

"Les Acadiens du Québec" ?