Football (Soccer) Thread

[alfred russel]

£200 million isn't how much they paid Neymar (I think he's on £35 million a year) that's how much they paid to sign him. Right now everyone wants Erling Haaland - he has apparently has a release clause that triggers in summer 2022 for £115 million, but the oligarch/nation state clubs are sniffing around now but obviously to sign him you'd need to pay a lot more than £115 million. Again that's just not viable for a lot of the elite clubs in the current market.

Imagine you are running Barca. You are getting priced out of these guys. What is the winning move:

-move to a model where your revenues are significantly higher so Neymar is again affordable?
-try to stop oligarchs from paying their players so much?

Without doing a ton of analysis, it seems that the market for Neymar should be able to bear a whole lot more than for any baseball guy. Ominously, maybe even just in the US.

[Jacob]

You... don't.  You just play in the Super League.  If you suck in the Super League you suck in the Super League.

Yeah that's the thing that's currently not flying. It's unlikely to fly in the near or medium term.

[Sheilbh]

Imagine you are running Barca. You are getting priced out of these guys. What is the winning move:

-move to a model where your revenues are significantly higher so Neymar is again affordable?
-try to stop oligarchs from paying their players so much?

Without doing a ton of analysis, it seems that the market for Neymar should be able to bear a whole lot more than for any baseball guy. Ominously, maybe even just in the US.

Yeah - again I don't think anyone is disputing the business cae for those clubs doing it

Interesting to see the players on this. This message was posted by Henderson and several other Liverpool players:

We don't like it and we don't want it to happen.

This is our collective position.

Our commitment to this football club and its supporters is absolute and unconditional.

You'll Never Walk Alone

Plus Bellerin joining Rashford and others in making their opposition to the plan very clear - such as Kevin de Bruyne:


And from an ESPN reporter on possible changes to the Champions League now they're in a position of weakness:

Dale Johnson
@DaleJohnsonESPN
When UEFA announced the new UCL format it said "potential adjustments to the format approved could still be made if necessary".

#SuperLeague Dirty Dozen are toothless.

Remove the +2 places for clubs with highest coefficient not to qualify IMMEDIATELY, give to actual champions.

If this doesn't end with the return of the Cup Winners' Cup I will be furious

[Jacob]

Yeah I think especially with say Benelux or Scandinavia where the leagues themselves aren't super competitive it'd make a lot of sense to have a regional super league. Also if it was possible I think a Yugoslav league would make a lot of sense.

Similarly I think an African super league makes a lot of sense and in each case would likely increase the revenue and allow those clubs to keep players for a little while longer.

There has been talk on and off about a pan-Scandinavian top tier.

[celedhring]

Also if it was possible I think a Yugoslav league would make a lot of sense.

If that were to happen in a few years Tamas, Bogh and Habs would have a sequel for the game they are playing.

[Barrister]

You... don't.  You just play in the Super League.  If you suck in the Super League you suck in the Super League.

Yeah that's the thing that's currently not flying. It's unlikely to fly in the near or medium term.

The whole promotion / relegation system sounds kind of cool, but I can see all kinds of problems too.

Your players are a rather fixed cost.  That's fine when your revenues are mostly from gate receipts, which should be fairly steady.  But once your revenues come increasingly from cable / streaming then having one bad year and being relegated would have a devastating effect on your bottom line.

[Sheilbh]

Your players are a rather fixed cost.  That's fine when your revenues are mostly from gate receipts, which should be fairly steady.  But once your revenues come increasingly from cable / streaming then having one bad year and being relegated would have a devastating effect on your bottom line.

Yeah. I don't know in all the leagues but in England you get parachute payments for I think 5 years after relegation to help with the adjustment but it can be catastrophic and there are clubs that plummet down the league pyramid because of their high Premier League cost base. On the other hand there are quite canny clubs that operate on the basis that they're basically a top 15-25 club - so their entire business model is based on the fact that they will probably yo-yo. They tend to be quite resilient.

The craziest thing is there are overseas buyers taking over clubs in the lower leagues and spending huge sums of money gambling on promotion (such is the value of getting into the Premier League) which influences the rest of the lower leagues. There is a strong need for some form of regulator to step in and enforce some sustainable financing - clubs go bust (especially after covid when they rely on gates).

This even goes down to the amateur level. There's a really good book about football in the North-West and the author visits loads of local clubs up and down the pyramid. And I think it's Fylde where a local fish food millionaire bought the club and they basically became the Man City of the Northern Premier League so he started signing players on semi-pro contracts, he built a new stadium (and from memory he had a huge BREXIT MEANS BREXIT sign on it ) and got promotion to the National League and then into the professional Leagues. I think they've been relegated since but he's planning to build a new bigger stadium as part of a £20 million sports village. It's crazy.

Edit: Liverpool's global "watch and timekeeping" commercial partner have pulled their sponsorship over this as Liverpool's behaviour no longer matches their corporate values.

[Jacob]

Yeah - again I don't think anyone is disputing the business cae for those clubs doing it

Yeah, it makes perfect sense as a means to increase shareholder value of the Super Friends ownership groups, and as a means to create and/ or entrench market leading positions.

Conversely, it also makes sense for the teams (and thus the leagues) outside the Super Friends groups to move against the creation of additional barriers to reach market leading positions themselves.

And from the point of view of the vast majority of fans, it seems the drama of qualifiying for promotion and the CL is valued higher than consistently seeing the same top tier clubs clash.

[Sheilbh]

I can only assume City's hospitality is outstanding

[Tamas]

I notice the lack of policemen manhandling the fans and pushing them to the ground to arrest them, unlike that vigil in London. Then again, these don't appear to be mourning ladies so there's that.

[Tamas]

And "saving of football" give me a break. 

[Sheilbh]

Yeah.

Although there was a police presence I think it was mainly aimed at protecting the team coaches (why the match was delayed) and Stamford Bridge. See in the photo of Cech:

[Sheilbh]

The club statements are ridiculous and make it very clear they'd all do the exact same thing again

Liverpool:

Liverpool Football Club can confirm that our involvement in proposed plans to form a European Super League has been discontinued. In recent days, the club has received representations from various key stakeholders, both internally and externally, and we would like to thank them for their valuable contributions.

United:

Manchester United will not be participating in the European Super League.

We have listened carefully to the reaction from our fans, the UK government and other key stakeholders.

We remain committed to working with others across the football community to come up with sustainable solutions to the long-term challenges facing the game.

Arsenal and Spurs at least expressed some regret - and Arsenal even apologised.

[Tamas]

I find it disgusting. When they faced peaceful women they went in guns blazing and knees in spines. Replace women with angry teenage boys and suddenly that thirst for decisive action is gone.

[Tamas]

The club statements are ridiculous and make it very clear they'd all do the exact same thing again

Liverpool:

Liverpool Football Club can confirm that our involvement in proposed plans to form a European Super League has been discontinued. In recent days, the club has received representations from various key stakeholders, both internally and externally, and we would like to thank them for their valuable contributions.

United:

Manchester United will not be participating in the European Super League.

We have listened carefully to the reaction from our fans, the UK government and other key stakeholders.

We remain committed to working with others across the football community to come up with sustainable solutions to the long-term challenges facing the game.

Arsenal and Spurs at least expressed some regret - and Arsenal even apologised.

Well, I mean, what do you expect? Public pressure made them retreat and re-accept UEFA skimming their milk but there was slim chance they'd suddenly buy the sanctimonious "omg sport is ruinered" shrilling, especially it coming from corrupt bastards like UEFA and FIFA.