History exam for 16 year olds in 1968

[grumbler]

Really?  How?  Some of them are okay, despite my glibness (as asinine a question as it is, I can see the value in discussing how historians are mnemonic janitors), but three of them aren't even history questions and seem like excuses for teenagers to exposit their political views at length, which can't possibly be anything but the most tedious thing in the world.  A couple others appear to be extremely dull and unimportant, such as the one about the JFK memorial.  (I've never considered it crucial to know what specific field the Magna Carta was signed in.)

They are better because they are open-ended and don't seem to be seeking the regurgitation of predigested pap.  Face it:  we, as historians, don't know why Hitler wanted to take over Czechoslovakia; in fact, his reasons almost certainly changed over time.  So how are we going to judge the answers of students when we don't know the answer ourselves?  I suspect that we are going to look to see if the students mention the Three Reasons Hitler Wanted To Take Over Czechoslovakia from p. 561 of the textbook.

The one about JFK and Runneymede is brilliant.

[The Brain]

Exactly.

What's the sound of one hand fapping?

[alfred russel]

Then again, I retract what I said in part, because I think I'm missing the point.  I think you're right, it's supposed to be a springboard to blather about the importance of the Magna Carta for several pages.  But the question is vague in that regard, and poorly written to get that meaning across.  Here's a better-worded effort to express the question "why is the Magna Carta important?": "why is the Magna Carta important"?

i'm not sure how important "runnymede" is to the british historian student, but couldn't it be an american equivalent ask the importance of gettysburg to ending slavery? sure, it's the civil war that matters most, but the question is testing not just a basic knowledge on the civil war (magna carta) but also whether the student can identify what they mean through using runnymede. a student who does not know what gettysburg is, even if they know what the civil war is, on a history exam, has failed is their point i'd assume

I dunno.  Gettysburg is slightly different, since, as a battle, its geographic location takes on an important dimension, whereas John could have met with the noblemen anywhere.

I wouldn't fail somebody if they forgot where Caesar was assassinated, or aboard what ship the Japanese signed the surrender instrument in 1945.

I'd agree, except the student only had answer 3 of the 10 questions. If the student forgot what Runneymede was and still chose that question, the student is probably better off going to a trade school or working in a coal mine. 

[Ideologue]

maybe they just wanted to make sure people knew what runnymede was, knowing what the magna carta was and its ultimate connection to the united states? they could have probably used any u.s. president, but chose jfk because he had recently died. maybe

That's what I'm saying--it's not important to know what Runnymede is, anymore than it's important to know what the Appomattox Court House is.  It's vital to know what occurred there, it's nice to know the geographic location of the event, but being able to place it on a map is not crucial to a high school education.

Then again, I retract what I said in part, because I think I'm missing the point.  I think you're right, it's supposed to be a springboard to blather about the importance of the Magna Carta for several pages.  But the question is vague in that regard, and poorly written to get that meaning across.  Here's a better-worded effort to express the question "why is the Magna Carta important?": "why is the Magna Carta important"?

I think it is implied that the objective of the student in answering the question is to demonstrate an understanding of historical facts and some critical thinking skills to analyze them. I think the original question gives the student a better opportunity to do that, while your question is going to invite the student to just recite what was heard in a lecture or read in the textbook (why the Magna Carta is important is usually mentioned). Maybe this is a generational thing--and questions today are just more direct.

Fair enough.  I do prefer direct questions.

Fwiw, I did think the part about Kennedy being a Catholic was a nice touch.

I'd agree, except the student only had answer 3 of the 10 questions. If the student forgot what Runneymede was and still chose that question, the student is probably better off going to a trade school or working in a coal mine. 

Well, yeah.

You could always write about whether Parliament should be televised instead.  (Cons... it might cost some infinitesimal amount of money? )

[LaCroix]

I dunno.  Gettysburg is slightly different, since, as a battle, its geographic location takes on an important dimension, whereas John could have met with the noblemen anywhere.

I wouldn't fail somebody if they forgot where Caesar was assassinated, or aboard what ship the Japanese signed the surrender instrument in 1945.  The locations of these events are not negligible, but their spatial location is less important than that of, say, the Kursk Salient.

johnny boy met them at runnymede, and so the two are forever connected. you're right, i should have used a better analogy; i just threw something out to explain the point that you seem to have got

[grumbler]

That's what I'm saying--it's not important to know what Runnymede is, anymore than it's important to know what the Appomattox Court House is.  It's vital to know what occurred there, it's nice to know the geographic location of the event, but being able to place it on a map is not crucial to a high school education.

As AR said, you just don't get the question.  I think his approach was certainly a possible one; you could also do Runneymede and JFK as symbols that don't match the reality; you could compare the Magna Carta to the Voting Rights Acts and show their affects on the politics of two countries; you could even take the opposite position and say why you couldn't justify Runneymede as a memorial for JFK.

Then again, I retract what I said in part, because I think I'm missing the point.  I think you're right, it's supposed to be a springboard to blather about the importance of the Magna Carta for several pages.  But the question is vague in that regard, and poorly written to get that meaning across.  Here's a better-worded effort to express the question "why is the Magna Carta important?": "why is the Magna Carta important"?

  Thank god you don't write exam questions!  There wouldn't be a student left awake 20 minutes into your exams.

[grumbler]

If the student forgot what Runneymede was and still chose that question, the student is probably better off going to a trade school or working in a coal mine. 

[grumbler]

Fair enough.  I do prefer direct questions.

Maybe that's why you are a lawyer and not a historian. 

[Ideologue]

  Thank god you don't write exam questions!  There wouldn't be a student left awake 20 minutes into your exams.

"Discuss the impact of the long-range heavy bomber on the Allied war effort.  Bear in mind that any answer amounting to 'negative impact' is grounds for an automatic fail."

[LaCroix]

ide, does this mean i shouldn't respond to the other part of your post? 

[alfred russel]

Exactly.

What's the sound of one hand fapping?

This question is reminiscent of traditional Buddhist philosophical riddles, such as "What is the sound of one hand clapping?" or "If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?"

In the Zen tradition, these questions are often pondered for extended periods of time through meditation after being presented by a master. The meditation is frequently done with the body placed into seated into a certain form, such as the lotus position. The Zen master will inquire as to the progress in solving the riddle presented. The Zen master will determine if the progress is sufficient, or if the riddle requires further contemplation. Certain riddles may be contemplated for a period of years.

Zen Buddhism developed in the Far East and flourished in the period following the Warring States Period in China. With the reduction in violence within China, and the subsequent increase in trade and population, there was a surplus of men that in previous times had entered military service. Zen Buddhism was patronized by the Chinese government so that these men would spend their lives contemplating unanswerable riddles rather than formenting violence. This contemplation had the further benefit of preventing their reproduction. This is not unlike the effect of modern day video games, such as World of Warcraft.

The question "what is the sound of one hand fapping" has altered the traditional riddle to incorporate a reference to masturbation. This altered riddle was posted on a message board that arose from modern day video games, and is a symptom of the sexual frustration of their patrons.

[Ideologue]

ide, does this mean i shouldn't respond to the other part of your post? 

Yeah, I don't think I was putting that very well.

[grumbler]

"Discuss the impact of the long-range heavy bomber on the Allied war effort.  Bear in mind that any answer amounting to 'negative impact' is grounds for an automatic fail."

A better question (though the qualifier destroys its historical validity).

The problem with questions like "what was the importance of the Magna Carta?" is that they are what teachers (and a lot of students) call "mind reading questions."    Every kid is reading it as "what do I (Prof Ide) think was the importance of the Magna Carta?" and so their cogitations are not about the Magna Carta, but about Prof Ide.  It is very hard to get away from mind-reading questions, but absolutely necessary.

[mongers]

Actually I was thinking of my cousin who's just retired from a UK examination board at under 60 years old.

Not sure what "retire" means, here.  He worked for the board full-time and now has a pension that he lives off of?  That is what "retire" means to me.  If he simply stopped working for them, he resigned.

[gR..]
If in doubt, question the definition of a word.
[/gR..]

I'll ask her what was the general age range of the people who set examinations.

[Richard Hakluyt]

There is an hour for each question in the special paper; the expectation would be for an essay of 1000 - 1500 words for each answer. A good mark would require a good essay. Any bloody fool could have a stab at answering the questions badly, to answer them well strikes me as being a significant challenge.