Game of Thrones begins....

[crazy canuck]

That was the theme of books 1 and 2.  But the series was always about the War of the Roses.

[crazy canuck]

I liked it at lot upon completion, but... problems are arising as I think it over.  At the very least... are Dany, Jon, and company the worst tacticians and planners ever or is it just me?

Yes, yes they are.  Put aside the errors of deployment, complete lack of siege defence etc.  Think about what their plan was.  They were going to send the Dothraki into battle without dragon glass weapons.  They didn't know the priestess was going to show up at the last minute to fix that problem. And for what?  The only plan was to delay the army of the dead at the fire moat long enough to kill the main baddy when he went for Bran.  Could have kept the Dothraki and Unsullied in reserve for that.

[Habbaku]

I thought that it was clear the Dothraki were all equipped with dragonglass arakhs?

[viper37]

I liked it at lot upon completion, but... problems are arising as I think it over.  At the very least... are Dany, Jon, and company the worst tacticians and planners ever or is it just me?

Jon tried to show some skills in the fight against the Wildlings, but the rest...  Yeah, bad tactician.

The cavalry charge was visually interesting, but I kind knew they would die, charging in the dark night like that, without waiting for the ennemy to be closer.

[viper37]

Yes, yes they are.  Put aside the errors of deployment, complete lack of siege defence etc.  Think about what their plan was.  They were going to send the Dothraki into battle without dragon glass weapons.  They didn't know the priestess was going to show up at the last minute to fix that problem. And for what?  The only plan was to delay the army of the dead at the fire moat long enough to kill the main baddy when he went for Bran.  Could have kept the Dothraki and Unsullied in reserve for that.

Well, the unsullied were the reserve.  They seem to have kind forgotten about the dragon, and the giants.

But really, everything was badly planned from the start...

The Wildings under Mance Rayder knew of the looming threat.  Why not try to convince the NightWatch of the danger, ask for asylum on Stark lands, behind the wall in exchange for their service at the wall?
I know it was Jon Snow's idea, but Mance should have come with it, to protect his people, instead of trying to bring the wall down.

[The Minsky Moment]

Now Arya got her big moment, though, it just reinforces my conviction that she won't off Cersei, too.

Agreed

[grumbler]

For years I assumed the series could be summed up as: "An ancient evils rises in the far north. The inhuman Others and their undead host march inexorably southward, determined to extinguish the light of civilization, humanity, and life itself. Only the men of the Night's Watch stand against the darkness. Meanwhile, the lords of the south pointlessly scheme and war against each other, oblivious to the true threat."

But I was wrong. It's about who sits on the Iron Throne after all.

What we learned last night is that the Night King was a symptom of the evil, not the evil.  Arya is NOT the Prince That was promised - she fits none of the criteria.  Therefor, defeating the Night King doesn't break the spell that is going to cause the Long Night, and the PTWP (Jon and/or Dani and just remotely possibly Tyrion) still has an ancient evil to overcome.  Maybe the throne gets settled before that, maybe not.

[Habbaku]

Agreed with the grumbles. I really don't think that the Night King was the last of the mystical shit we're going to see. They have three massive episodes coming up. Is it really just two episodes of Cersei vs. the world and an epilogue episode? I have my doubts.

[Valmy]

That was the theme of books 1 and 2.  But the series was always about the War of the Roses.

I am pretty familiar with the War of the Roses and I have a hard time seeing much resemblance. I mean I know it is roughly inspired by them but I don't see any of the historical issues of the War of the Roses really explored. Robert Baratheon is not really anything like Henry VI and Henry's unfitness for being a King was central to that whole crisis.

[Habbaku]

Also: with the death of House Mormont, it seems almost certain that Dany's going to become even more unhinged, right? She's lost a ton of her Dothraki (probably 90%+ casualties there), some of her most level-headed advisers, and plainly doesn't truly trust some of the others she has under her wings.

Couple that with the fact that some of her other, closest advisers (Missandei) are pretty clearly more aggressive about her seizing her "rights" and...I don't see her being very nice to folks going forward. Mad Queen, maybe?

[The Larch]

I must say that I feel that the ending was a bit Arya ex machina. She just came out of nowhere and jumped on top of the NK, who is in the middle of his troops and officers? The quintessential evil defeated by sleight of hand? Feels a bit underwhelming. I hope Mel (nice surprise to see her back!) magicked something off her ass to disguise Arya or something.

Battle was great and agonizing, IMO, and tactically dumb, as expected. Lots of tension, and well on its way to end up super bleak and grimdark if they had wanted, but too many big characters with plot armour and the sneaky ending for that to become true.

What's the final body count amongst named characters?

[The Larch]

The next episode seems to be the peeps at Winterfell licking their wounds and Cersei licking her lips.

Trailer, for those interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksTqLXLUvQ4

[Habbaku]

What's the final body count amongst named characters?

Theon Greyjoy, Jorah Mormont, Beric Dondarrion, Lyanna (all of House Mormont), Dolorous Edd, and Dothraki dude whose name escapes me.

And some dude named the Night King.

[The Minsky Moment]

That was the theme of books 1 and 2.  But the series was always about the War of the Roses.

I am pretty familiar with the War of the Roses and I have a hard time seeing much resemblance. I mean I know it is roughly inspired by them but I don't see any of the historical issues of the War of the Roses really explored. Robert Baratheon is not really anything like Henry VI and Henry's unfitness for being a King was central to that whole crisis.

Robert is more like Henry V in this scenario. The overall theme is powerful and proud noble houses with their own retinues and loyal retainers seeking to influence or capture the Crown, or scheming in rebellion if they are temporarily on the outs.

[Habbaku]

And Melisandre, of course.