Game of Thrones begins....

[Grinning_Colossus]

"We can't kill the Night King because that'll kill the all the Wights and we won't be able to bring back an animated Wight to convince people to fight the Night King".

Dany wasn't privy to the information about the Night King at the time.

[grumbler]

I always imagine that a lot of these scenes were it just doesn't work as a whole are a product of writing by committee, where there isn't anyone to step in and say "Wait a minute - none of this makes any fucking SENSE!"


And then I think "Well, maybe there is such a person, and maybe they just don't care whether it makes sense or not. They care about whether it is visually appealing, fits into the time budget, and can be done in the cost budget...".


Could you imagine Martin writing something so shoddy from a story perspective?

I'm kinda wondering if the last episode didn't burn through so much of their budget that they just decided to fill screen time with guys walking around and swapping anecdotes.

Some of the anecdotes weren't bad, but the whole episode seemed to have lost the tension that was present in earlier episodes.  I didn't find the final battle tense at all.

[Berkut]

Some of the anecdotes weren't bad, but the whole episode seemed to have lost the tension that was present in earlier episodes.  I didn't find the final battle tense at all.

For a show that supposedly broke ground in the "Yes, we really will kill your favorite character motherfucker!" trope, I found it incredibly annoying that they tried to create tension around Jon's survival at least three different times.

1. ZOMG THEY ARE ABOUT TO CATCH THEM WHEW SAVED BY HANDY ICE LAKE AT JUST THE RIGHT MOMENT IN THE RIGHT TIME.
2. OH NOES THEY ARE GOING TO BE OVERRUN BY THE Walk....errh undead...WHEW THE DRAGON ARRIVED JUST IN TIME!
3. OH MY GOSH HE IS DEAD! THEY CAUGHT HIM AND PULLED HIM UNDER THE WATER! NO WAY OUT OF THAT ONE!. Oh wait, there he is crawling out...minutes later? Apparently living people have less need of oxygen then dead people? WTF?
4. HOLY CRAP! THEY NOTICED HIM! HE IS DEAD FOR SURE! Oh, look, here comes his uncle who in the entire expanse of the North just happened to be wondering about near Jon. Lucky break there.

Look. You guys killed him already, then you brought him back from the dead. And that is all good. But nobody is going to believe that he is going to die in some middle of the season nothing episode, so the tension you are trying to create by putting Pretty Jon in all this hopeless situations? It's just silly and rather boring.

[viper37]

I was kinda surprised they spent so much time on the Quest in the North.  Fan service, I suppose.

And the zombie dragon, as I predicted.  Now we know how the Wall will be destroyed.

I found the battle at the frozen lake very dissatisfying after the battles we've seen in the past couple of episodes.  The zombies totally surround them, and yet Jon keeps having them 'retreat."  Where are they retreating to, and why aren't zombies already there?  The whole thing just didn't work for me.

Also...why did the zombies just stop?

they realized the ice was too thin, so they waited them out.  Zombies are immortals, humans will eventually die from cold exposure/lack of food/lack of water.

from the nightking's point of view, arriving to the wall one day or the other isn't really important.  He's been walking for 6000 years, I think.

[viper37]

So all it took was one raven and Dany was off with her three dragons to safe the day where she didn't believe them earlier?

Yes, it was stupid writing.  Jon should have convinced her to accompany him in the north with one of her dragon.  Then, maybe just fly over land until you find a horde and watch them from a distance, retreat.

Why didn't she just fly them there in the first place? And why didn't her dragons just immediately roast the Night King instead of focusing on the zombie hordes? That would have ended the war then and there.

The Night King is immune to fire, it is known.    We see him walking through fire at some point.

[viper37]

8: My theory... The Walkers can warg into zombies. Thats why that one stayed alive. Its where the killed walker has transferred. Thats why the zombies really wanted it back. And why the show was careful to always hide its face.

when a Walker dies, the zombies he converted die with him.  that's what they said in the episode though.  I have no idea if it's consistent with the episode at Hardhome.

[viper37]

Could you imagine Martin writing something so shoddy from a story perspective?

Well, when you take a quarter century to write 5 books, it's easier not to get lost than doing the same work in 6 years

[viper37]

I didn't find the final battle tense at all.

from the moment they walked out there, we knew a deus ex machina would save them.  A timely appearance by allied force, a dragon, Benjen, whatever.

I suspect in the books, the Children of the Forrest will save that party in a similar fashion and sacrifice themselves, they way they did for Bran.

[viper37]

Apparently living people have less need of oxygen then dead people? WTF?

Last week, Bronn carried an armored Jamie 2km under water before surfacing to breath. What's 30 seconds under icy water?

4. HOLY CRAP! THEY NOTICED HIM! HE IS DEAD FOR SURE! Oh, look, here comes his uncle who in the entire expanse of the North just happened to be wondering about near Jon. Lucky break there.

that could be explained because Benjen is shadowing the army of th dead, unable to attack due to their numbers, but sometimes picking off stragglers when he can.

Look. You guys killed him already, then you brought him back from the dead. And that is all good. But nobody is going to believe that he is going to die in some middle of the season nothing episode, so the tension you are trying to create by putting Pretty Jon in all this hopeless situations? It's just silly and rather boring.

totally agree.

[celedhring]

I sure hope the books are better than this.

[Josephus]

I was kinda surprised they spent so much time on the Quest in the North.  Fan service, I suppose.

And the zombie dragon, as I predicted.  Now we know how the Wall will be destroyed.

I found the battle at the frozen lake very dissatisfying after the battles we've seen in the past couple of episodes.  The zombies totally surround them, and yet Jon keeps having them 'retreat."  Where are they retreating to, and why aren't zombies already there?  The whole thing just didn't work for me.

Also...why did the zombies just stop?

they realized the ice was too thin, so they waited them out.  Zombies are immortals, humans will eventually die from cold exposure/lack of food/lack of water.

Um but then the one guy lobbed a snowball and they decided to hell with the thin ice?

[HVC]

The rock didn't break the ice so they realized it was frozen over. As for not burning big papa ice king, dani didn't know he was the leader, or what killing him would do. She took out the walkers closest to the group.

[HVC]

I sure hope the books are better than this.

Yeah, it seems like they're losing direction. The only thing that makes me sad is that there's a totally different usueless dorn story in the book, so I have to live through it twice.

[Habbaku]

I sure hope the books are better than this.

Yeah, it seems like they're losing direction. The only thing that makes me sad is that there's a totally different usueless dorn story in the book, so I have to live through it twice.

You're making a huge assumption that the Dorne story in the books is useless. It hasn't been shown that it is yet, and I have some ideas as to why it will matter.

[HVC]

I sure hope the books are better than this.

Yeah, it seems like they're losing direction. The only thing that makes me sad is that there's a totally different usueless dorn story in the book, so I have to live through it twice.

You're making a huge assumption that the Dorne story in the books is useless. It hasn't been shown that it is yet, and I have some ideas as to why it will matter.

[spoiler] husband to be got charbroiled. Not sure what else can happen that will have a different out come then the tv show, but along a different meandering road [spoiler]