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[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

Started by Josephus, March 22, 2011, 09:27:34 PM

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Barrister

So watching the US-Finland game last night - played in Montreal.

During anthems you could tell that Sportsnet turned off the audience mikes, but social media does confirm that the US anthem was lustfully booed.  US did go on to a romping 6-1 win over Finland.

It's really unfortunate in a lot of ways - I remember several years ago when in Edmonton the anthem singer's mike went out during the US anthem - and the crowd finished it off for him, from memory and without prompting.

But also - when the US President repeatedly says we aren't a real country and should join the US, it's going to raise those kind of sentiments.

What does Languish think?
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

Oexmelin

Boo away.

Whether Americans like it or not, he's their president. And if people didn't want their hockey games to be political, there would be no anthem sung.
Que le grand cric me croque !

Grey Fox

No one should have to cheer on its intimidator.

We're not friends anymore.
Colonel Caliga is Awesome.

Barrister

Quote from: Oexmelin on February 14, 2025, 11:19:38 AMBoo away.

Whether Americans like it or not, he's their president. And if people didn't want their hockey games to be political, there would be no anthem sung.

There's an argument though that booing may be counter-productive, as it will raise the ire of average Americans - even those not inclined to support Trump.

There's no way to co-ordinate the actions of 20k fans in a building, but if possible I would think absolute stony silence would be the best way to pull it off.

Mind you there's also the argument that fans paid their money, they get to do what they want (within reason).
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

garbon

Quote from: Barrister on February 14, 2025, 11:25:46 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on February 14, 2025, 11:19:38 AMBoo away.

Whether Americans like it or not, he's their president. And if people didn't want their hockey games to be political, there would be no anthem sung.

There's an argument though that booing may be counter-productive, as it will raise the ire of average Americans - even those not inclined to support Trump.

There's no way to co-ordinate the actions of 20k fans in a building, but if possible I would think absolute stony silence would be the best way to pull it off.

Mind you there's also the argument that fans paid their money, they get to do what they want (within reason).

Yeah it feels like you are just jumping down into the mud that America is in. Don't pretend it is anything that an emotional reaction.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Barrister

Quote from: garbon on February 14, 2025, 11:27:33 AMYeah it feels like you are just jumping down into the mud that America is in. Don't pretend it is anything that an emotional reaction.

Of course it's an emotional action.

But questioning the right of our nation to exist does tend to increase one's passions.

Worth also noting this was happening in Montreal, Quebec - a province with a complicated relationship with Canada.
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

garbon

Quote from: Barrister on February 14, 2025, 11:30:25 AM
Quote from: garbon on February 14, 2025, 11:27:33 AMYeah it feels like you are just jumping down into the mud that America is in. Don't pretend it is anything that an emotional reaction.

Of course it's an emotional action.

But questioning the right of our nation to exist does tend to increase one's passions.

Worth also noting this was happening in Montreal, Quebec - a province with a complicated relationship with Canada.

And it is a sporting event.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Josephus

Quote from: Barrister on February 14, 2025, 10:38:47 AMHe's just someone so rigidly and dogmatically socialist.  He would use this same kind of language about anyone just to the right of Chairman Mao.  This MAGA era has caused me to re-consider some voices on the left - but not Moore.

Hence my preamble. He is given to exaggeration. but he's also been a pessimist in the past, so this fills me with a bit of hope.

I do fantasize that the U.S. establishment, whether that be the military, the industry, or even the courts,  step in somehow.

Civis Romanus Sum<br /><br />"My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world." Jack Layton 1950-2011

Jacob

I think the core of Moore's argument is probably right.

The biggest risk to the Trump and the tech oligarchs fascist takeover is that they cause too much trouble and turn too many people against them before they can fully dispense with the trappings and forms of democracy.

I wouldn't frame it like Moore nor would I say it's inevitable, but I think the core of it - as I understand it - is true. While Trump and his backers plan is pretty clear, they may still mess it up and enough opposition build to foil them.

How the midterms go will be very instructive.

crazy canuck

The trappings of democracy have already been dispensed with.  Congress is irrelevant.  The US is well into the period of rule by decree.

Barrister

Personally, I blame Obama.

:P

I mean obviously not - Trump is responsible for his own bad actions - but this notion of doing matters by Executive Order has been increasing for a long time.  For Obama we saw it in the steps he took for the so-called DREAMers, or for Biden in student debt releif.
 
We're seeing it in Canada too - with Trudeau seeing no problem in proroguing Parliament but also announcing a number of responses to Trump, and with Carney indicating he'll use several emergency powers to respond to Trump if he's elected Liberal leader.

None of which means Trump escapes blame - but this centralization in the leader's office has grown as the entire apparatus of the state has grown.  Not sure how though you reverse it.
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

viper37

#22376
Quote from: Barrister on February 14, 2025, 06:04:07 PMI mean obviously not - Trump is responsible for his own bad actions - but this notion of doing matters by Executive Order has been increasing for a long time.  For Obama we saw it in the steps he took for the so-called DREAMers, or for Biden in student debt releif.
That's the problem with conservative-minded people, you all have selective memory. :) :P
https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/statistics/data/executive-orders

GW Bush signed more eo than Obama.
G.H Bush signed more eo than Obama in his first mandate.
Ronald Reagan signed more eo than Obama.

Three Republican Presidents, at least 2 much adored by the right in their time and 2 still mythified to this day with one that just recently had a bad movie made on him to please the target audience.

If I keep digging, I see another Republican President with more eo than Obama.


The problem is not the executive orders in itself, but the nature of them.

And obviously, the hypocrisy of the Republicans who complained when Obama or Biden when using executive orders to bypass a deadlocked Congress while Trump is just using it to bypass congressional purview and act illegally.
I don't do meditation.  I drink alcohol to relax, like normal people.

If Microsoft Excel decided to stop working overnight, the world would practically end.

Jacob

It's the usual "when you do it, it's wrong; when we do it - even if we do it more - it's fine."

HVC

Quote from: viper37 on February 14, 2025, 07:08:42 PMThat's the problem with conservative-minded people, you all have selective memory.

Your progress is coming along nicely :wub: :D
Being lazy is bad; unless you still get what you want, then it's called "patience".
Hubris must be punished. Severely.

Neil

Quote from: HVC on February 14, 2025, 07:14:08 PM
Quote from: viper37 on February 14, 2025, 07:08:42 PMThat's the problem with conservative-minded people, you all have selective memory.
Your progress is coming along nicely :wub: :D
The funny thing is that his entire response is sort of a non-response.  It's pretty clear from the context of Beeb's post that it's not the number of executive orders that are the problem, but rather their use for things that should be handled within the legislative sphere. 

I know I haven't seen most of you in a decade, but some of the changes in people are kind of jarring.  Viper is weirdly aggressive, all the time.  It's like Money's old schtick, but not as charming. 
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.